Hole In The World vs. Shells

N

Nikita

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These episodes were one after the other and I thought watching Hole In The World was, while sad, wasn't really heartwrenching, and now, watching it again, it's an episode which is sad, but not completely tearjerking.

However, Shells. While it was much more Illyria and Knox centric, is SO much sadder for me. The whole final scene from when Illyria is in her temple and breaks down to where Fred leaves Texas and goes through all the AI members sadness after her death is just so much harder to go through because you're going through it WITH them.

(This thread is a cluster so far, I know, but I just want to get to my point.)

These two episodes are much about the same thing; Fred's death. I find Hole In The World sad, but it doesn't hit home straight away that Fred's dying. Shells does exactly that. It's a perfect episode and one of the best of the season.

So, do you guys prefer Shells or Hole In The World? And which for you is sadder?
 
I much prefer Shells to A Whole in the World. I never liked Fred so I'm not exactly sad to see her gone. I love Illyria and I love the scene where she breaksdown in the temple. Plus she has really awesome fight scenes.

But I don't really find any of the episodes regarding Freds death sad. I feel a little bad for Wesley.
 
I found A Hole in the World to be too melodramatic and manipulative, almost as much as Buffy's 'The Prom'. Still very good, but Shells is superior in my opinion.
 
N
Nikita
You don't like The Prom? :O It's one of my top 10 Buffyverse episodes!
Buffyheaven, I really do like the Prom a lot. Regardless, I still think the last ten minutes really manipulate the viewers emotions.
 
Christopher said:
Buffyheaven, I really do like the Prom a lot. Regardless, I still think the last ten minutes really manipulate the viewers emotions.
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Yeah. The last 10 minutes is better than some of The Body and some of The Gift. It's just perfect. Especially Cordelia's "Thank You." to Xander, which really starts her character progression imo.
 
Buffyheaven said:
Yeah. The last 10 minutes is better than some of The Body and some of The Gift. It's just perfect. Especially Cordelia's "Thank You." to Xander, which really starts her character progression imo.
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I feel like you think I'm cussing the episode, I assure you I'm not. A bit of cheese now and then isn't strictly a bad thing and the ending had the desired emotional effect (lump in my throat) but I still think it was overly sentimental. When Angel walked in me and my girlfriend both laughed at the same time, sweet as it was it just stood out as a little too Rom-Com if you know what I mean. However, the point of the episode was to give Buffy that one perfect night that all teen girls wish for (before the coming battle most don't have to deal with) and in that respect the episode succeeded. I also agree that the end of Cordy's S3 Buffy arc set her character up perfectly for moving over to Angel, and this episode was the pinnacle of that.
 
Christopher said:
I feel like you think I'm cussing the episode, I assure you I'm not. A bit of cheese now and then isn't strictly a bad thing and the ending had the desired emotional effect (lump in my throat) but I still think it was overly sentimental. When Angel walked in me and my girlfriend both laughed at the same time, sweet as it was it just stood out as a little too Rom-Com if you know what I mean. However, the point of the episode was to give Buffy that one perfect night that all teen girls wish for (before the coming battle most don't have to deal with) and in that respect the episode succeeded. I also agree that the end of Cordy's S3 Buffy arc set her character up perfectly for moving over to Angel, and this episode was the pinnacle of that.
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I don't think you're cussing the episode at all, I was just explaining how I felt about the episode and I completely agree that the episode felt a bit like a cheesy romcom where Buffy should've been played by Jen Ann and Angel by Hugh Grant, but I thought the episode was just a great mix of the horror genre that Buffy is so well known for and the romantic genre. I honestly don't even think that the Bangel part of the episode is that important, the moment where they break up is touching and sad, but it didn't click with me as much as the Cander moments and the moment where Buffy wins the Class Protecter awards. These are two of the best moments in the series and I just feel they make the episode a wonderful thing to watch. 🙂 This is off topic though haha.
 
I love this thread already. I always go "What?" when someone say "A Hole in the World" is one of the best Ats episodes. It's good, but I think "Shells" is better. Maybe it's because I love Illyria more than Fred. But the last scene made me cry every time. And Wesley and Gunn crying is so sad. And you don't get to see Insightful!Harmony very often so I think it's awesome.
 
I didn't like Fred much either and her death was kind of overrated...anyway, I preferred Shells I guess.
 
Hmm, both episodes really go together for me, it's hard to separate them, but I think I really prefer A Hole In the World. I said this in that thread, but it's more visually stunning: Fred's appearance during her last moments, Spike & Angel's visit to the Cotswolds, the Deeper Well, and the intro of Illyria. I loved AA & AD's performances.
 
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