Holly and Jessica

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I have to say im surprised no-one has started this thread already. Its such a big event . . . such a tragedy. This is just the place where we can come to pay our respects to the two beautiful 10 year old girls who were abducted and murdered in soham, england, and who knows what else they went through.
Also use this opportunity to discuss your views on issues such as sarah's law, capital punishment and paedophiles on the streets.
All views welcome, even if controversial, however sick views are not.
This was an awful event, i say bring back capital punishment for people such as ian huntley. They only darken the world - a child's innocence is so precious, yet in today's society, it is dangerous if it's around too long.
This was awful beyond words. May they rest in peace.
 
I hadn't heard of this until now, and may I just say how disgusted I am to here this. It's so sad to think that the world has such sick people in it to be able to do something like this. No one deserves to hear about such a tragedy. I can't even imagine what it must be like for the parents of these two girls.
 
I haven't heard of it either until now. Wow. That's just terrible though. Wow. I agree, people like that guy just ruin this world. It's a total shame.
 
Hmmm...while I agree that these kind of things are terrible beyond belief, it is no reason to take another human life. Capital punishment is not an answer or a deterrent, and in my opinion, is a barbaric practice. What if the police get it wrong? It will happen because the justice system is far from infallible. People who commit such crimes should be locked away for life...and that means life, not 40 or 50 years, but until they die. They should be rehabilitated, but not re-introduced into society and they should not get a cushy prison. That seems the only (fair?) way to me...
 
It was so horrible and i can't imagine what it was like for the parents not knowing for all that time. I heard that they were dead on the first or second day they went missing, thats extremely sad. They had to be identified from dental records as their bodies were so decomposed. Anybody who could do that to two happy beautiful little girls deserves all they can get. I do think paedophiles and murderers deserve the death penalty. This people should lose their right to live having taken anothers.

R.I.P Holly and Jessica
 
Im surprised some of you hadnt heard of it in america. Its been all over CNN and spread around the world. People around the world have been signing condolence books in their many thousands.
For those of you who do not know the facts, i will tell you the awful story. Two 10 year old girls went out, playing i think, both wearing their manchester united football (soccer) tops, and went missing. After almost 2 weeks of the search, which made all headlines constantly, 2 main people were taken in. One, Ian Huntley - college caretaker at a nearby college, and who had been the last person to talk to them (he told police) and one, his girlfriend, Maxine Carr, a supply teacher who had actually taught the girls. Then about a day later, their bodies were discovered, badly decomposed - they needed DNA testing to identify them, and dental records. The man has been charged with abduction and murder, the woman with perverting the course of justice, although more serious charges may follow.
This was an awful crime, shocking the whole country - a teacher, who you are supposed to trust to to go for help, was partly responsible. There has been complete outrage and the whole country has been involved, trying to get changes in the law to protect children.
I cant imagine what the parents feel, and anyone who has not suffered all this should not say they can - coz they are lying. Words cannot express what they must be feeling.
Supposedly, 95% or something like that, murders of children, or sexual assaults/abduction, are not done by strangers but by people they know. This was a horrific example.
I believe they should be killed. rdjon, why put them away for life when a) life hardly ever means life and b) the tax payers spend hundreds and thousands keeping them in prison for years. Killing them acts as a deterrent, even for just a few, and prevents them from re-offending, thats for sure.
This was an awful tragedy that should never have happened and never hsould again - although, without any shred of doubt, it sadly will.
 
While I don't disagree with the death penalty, I think that being put away for life would be a worse fate than to be killed. One would have to think about what he did for the rest of his life, locked away and secluded in a jail cell. I think people like Ian Huntley should be left in such a cell for the remainder of their lives and left to think about what a horrid thing they've done. Certainly, this punishment would be worse than the death penalty. The death penalty just allows people to get off easy and not have to think about what horrible thing(s) they've done.
 
I agree with you that a life secluded is worse but it costs so much (thousands) and life is rarely life, meaning the offender - murderer or paedophile even - can get out and possibly reoffend.
 
The only problem with locking them away is that they aren't locked in a cell, we have other murders here (Hindley & Brady are 2) and they probably have access to better facilities inside the secure unit where they are than normal people of this country do.

Anyone who can commit crimes of that nature (rape, murder,etc)against children isn't human in my opinion, they're animals and should be put down as such!!
 
I totally agree. And unfortunately, youre right in saying that jails can be pretty cushy . . . they should be taken away, and "put down" for their horrific crimes.
 
Originally posted by Vai
The only problem with locking them away is that they aren't locked in a cell, we have other murders here (Hindley & Brady are 2) and they probably have access to better facilities inside the secure unit where they are than normal people of this country do.

Anyone who can commit crimes of that nature (rape, murder,etc)against children isn't human in my opinion, they're animals and should be put down as such!!
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Just a minor point. Whilst Hindley is kept within a facility which does offer good "rehabilitation services" Brady is certified criminally insane, I think that is the proper term. And Hindley is locked in a cell, as are the majority of all prisoners. Brady often has a very loose hold on sanity, as demonstrated by his "who moved that hill" comment when out looking for the body of one of their victims with police. As such I don't think Brady can be included in this argument, as whilst he is a criminal, he is mentally ill, and that puts him in a totally different category in my opinion

Also Maxine Carr was not a teacher, but a classroom assistant. Thats why now there's a sudden tightening on the classroom assistants; you're supposed to be checked out by teh police before you can help, but in a majority of cases this doesn ot happen; my own mum worked at my school as an assistant, often being left with classes of over thirty (which is technically not supposed to happen because she was not insured) and she was not checked out until she took the permanent position over 8 months later
 
I don't think that the system is strict enough, look at Richard Crawford or example, he raped and murdered a pensioner and attempted to rape another. He was sentenced to "life" in february 2000. He had an appeal and is now missing. A dangerous criminal isn't even locked up. The police don't even know where he is. People who can rape and murder should be executed there is no excuse for it. Too many people claim insanity as well,which is usually complete bollocks.
 
Originally posted by Charlie Angel
I don't think that the system is strict enough, look at Richard Crawford or example, he raped and murdered a pensioner and attempted to rape another. He was sentenced to "life" in february 2000. He had an appeal and is now missing. A dangerous criminal isn't even locked up. The police don't even know where he is. People who can rape and murder should be executed there is no excuse for it. Too many people claim insanity as well,which is usually complete bollocks.
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It isn't "bollocks". There is a reason for the trained professionals who investigate those who are sectioned; it is nigh on impossible to "claim" insanity and get away with it, simply because you can. Any person who "claims" insanity is thoroughly examined under section and fakes are usually found out 🙂
 
Originally posted by Willow


It isn't "bollocks". There is a reason for the trained professionals who investigate those who are sectioned; it is nigh on impossible to "claim" insanity and get away with it, simply because you can. Any person who "claims" insanity is thoroughly examined under section and fakes are usually found out 🙂
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I agree that phonies are found out. But i do believe . . . this is gonna be hard to express by writing . . . i believe that to commit such atroscious crimes as these people have, ie murder, rape etc of any person, young or old, you have to be quite insane in the first place. If you did say that, then no-one would be tried as they would just plead "insanity". What im saying is that Huntley has to have been "insane" to do this to two 10 year old girls - but he should still stand trial without a doubt. This is hard to write . . . i think theres "insane" and "insane" if you see what i mean. But Huntley is no more insane than your next murderer.
 
I honestly don't know what should be their punishment. They are two evil people. They took away the lives of two little girls and then revelled in the attention they got from the media as they joined in the search parties. What punishment could equal a crime so heinous? I do know that my daughter will never be allowed to play outside of the household. It isn't safe anymore. Crimes like these seem to be on the increase but there is nothing being done to protect our children. Do events like this occur frequently in other countries because we don't hear about it. It seems to be out of control in the UK.
 
Sorry to disagree, but crime like this are not on the increase (see http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb702.pdf for some the England and Wales Crime Report). They are, however, reported by the media in general and in particular the newspapers on a much more frequent basis. Being a cynical person, I would suggest this is to raise newspaper sales figures, but maybe they are reporting truth and delivering their own kind of justice.

I can see why most people would want to execute people who comitted such evil crimes and I don't fully disagree with that. I personally believe life imprisonment is the answer (regardless of any cost to the tax payer - I'm not advocating putting them up in the Ritz hotel here). But no-one seems to have answered my previous question...What if you get it wrong? What if you execute an innocent person? Then we (society) have murded someone. This will happen at some point as any justice system is far from infalible.

One more thing to note...most people so far has judged these two people guilty already....they haven't had a trial yet. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Again the newspapers don't help, biasing any reports made on them...The papers shouldn't be reporting on the accused at all as it may prejudice the trial. This could mean that the accused are released even if they are guilty because they couldn't have a fair trial. And that would be the real travisty of justice.

Ok, rant over...hope I haven't offended anyone
 
We did this in psych bout criminals usually going for the "i'm mentally ill" thing. Can't remember the blokes name but he claimed he was indeed ill and didn't know why he murdered his wife i think it was. He didn't even go to prison but was counselled. We all watched tapes of him and it was so unlikely he was mentally ill, he acted like a normal person until it suited him to play up for the system. Personally I do think people can just have a sick personality without them being mentally ill. I don't really see how it excuses killing somebody either, if u do have a problem get some medication. Surely it would have been noticed beforehand considering he had a fine childhood. I also don't excuse childhood traumas as an incentive to commit a crime later on in life, I know people who have been abused and all sorts when they were younger, they have all turned out completely fine. People should just take responsiblity for their own evil actions and stop making excuses. (I'm well aware that i have gone off the point) lol.

Double Post: -

rdjon, I do agree with you about the caretaker and his wife, do they have hard evidence against them. Yes it looks more than likely it was them, I may just have not heard myself but hat proof do they have? The media wants to sell stories, the more shocking the better.
 
Originally posted by Charlie Angel
Personally I do think people can just have a sick personality without them being mentally ill.
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I agree with that, there just has to be something "wrong"

Originally posted by Charlie Angel I don't really see how it excuses killing somebody either, if u do have a problem get some medication. Surely it would have been noticed beforehand considering he had a fine childhood. I also don't excuse childhood traumas as an incentive to commit a crime later on in life, I know people who have been abused and all sorts when they were younger, they have all turned out completely fine. People should just take responsiblity for their own evil actions and stop making excuses. (I'm well aware that i have gone off the point) lol.
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I don't think it's that simple; I for one know mental conditions can develop later in life, a relative developed alzheimer's in teh lsat few years, and whilst it's traditionally associated with ageing, he is only 61. Conditions such as schizophrenia and bipolarity can lie dormant for years and not present themselves until a person is say 25 or even 50. Medication can't always sort conditions just like that, and especially with schizophrenia and psychopathy the person can appear completely normal. Whilst some people may use childhood abuse as an excuse, for example Myra Hindley's actions have been attempted ot be excused by saying she was unloved as a hcild because she lived with her grandmother; which was perfectly normal for families in her situation at the time, it can directly determine the way a person behaves later in life, and like mental illness it is somethign they can do very little about. Hope i haven't goen completely OT it's simply that I've done a lot of reading into Hindley/Brady/ Mary Bell, so hopefully I've got something to contribute 🙂
 
Yeh dont get me wrong, I'm not dismissing all mental illnesses cos it does happen and it can be awful for that person. But it just seems that a lot of people try to use being mentally ill as an excuse, which I don't agree with. If they really had an illness i would have sympathy for them but i still think they deserve punishment and perhaps treatment if available for them.
 
The increase is probably due to the media but they only highlight the problems. The fact of the matter is that whether crimes such as this are increasing or decreasing, they shouldn't be happening at all.IMO we need a law like Sarahs law. Do you agree/disagree, why? Also going back to the mental illness issue, the mental hospital where Ian HUntley is being kept issued a statement saying that it could take up to a month to examine him properly so if he is faking I have faith that he will be found out. And unfortunately if they are found to be innocent, their lives will be ruined.
 
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