Holtz vs Slayers

[Kana]

I often used to recall on various Spike vs Angel threads that people would often comment that Spike took on Slayers while Angel(us) ran scared from a ordinary human.

I never really thought about it one way or the other but it made me wonder, how formidable is Holtz?

Now I'm sure that a Slayer would make short work of Holtz one on one, but he often worked as part of a team and was extremely cunning. He tended to employ guerilla tactics when hunting vampires.

So my question is, is Holtz arguably just as formidable as a Slayer?

 

[Fusions2]

Hmmm that's a good question. I think the reason why Holtz scared Angelus and Darla was because his drive to kill both of them was through vengeance and anger making him just as formidable. Most of the time a Slayer was driven to fight by duty rather than vengeance and anger, their power to fight kept them just as formidable, only when truly angry was their power even greater. Buffy showed that time and time again, especially when fighting Angelus.

 

[brinkster130]

Yes. I think that his experience, guerrilla tactics, dedication, backup team, as well as people ( or vampires) underestimating him (because he is human) made him very dangerous. One-on-one he wouldn't be a big threat; but he knew that, and was never left alone to take on his fights. He was very thoughtful about how he went about his fights.

I think the fact that he tracked/hunted Angelus and Darla, two of the most villainous vampires ever, across Europe for so long is proof that he was much more than just a typical angry human.

 

[Ripper666]

No because he doesn't know what honor is. A Slayer has to know that there are rules which are not allowed to break! Like killing humans. Holtz didn't know anything about this! And in my eyes he was never as intelligent as Buffy or Faith. 🙂 In their past they made plans much more complicated than the ones Holtz made!

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I'd say he's as formidable as a slayer, because he's just as much of a threat.

If anyone is England remembers, back when Angel aired on SkyOne, you used to be able to look 1 week ahead at next weeks episode in the digital TV guide and in you pressed 'Information' it would tell you what the episode was about, and when Justine came into the series, the information guide referred to her as a slayer, it said something like Holtz enlists the help of a slayer to take on Angel - For most people thats just someone who can kill a Vampire. I remember reading it and being like holy crap there bringing in another slayer!

 

[Kana]

No because he doesn't know what honor is. A Slayer has to know that there are rules which are not allowed to break! Like killing humans

To which rules are you referring?

If we are talking about morality in general, then I'd agree that at least Buffy could be considered morally superior to Holtz, at least in terms of when he was in the 21st century but I'm arguing in terms of being a threat to a vampire.

. Holtz didn't know anything about this! And in my eyes he was never as intelligent as Buffy or Faith. 🙂 In their past they made plans much more complicated than the ones Holtz made!

Well it's arguable whether he's as intelligent as Buffy or Faith, but I'm not necessarily talking about them. For all we know there were less intelligent slayers who were poor at planning.

The way I saw it, was that Buffy was a very successful Slayer. I'm not sure what the average life expectency of a Slayer would be, I'd contend they'd be Slayers who simply blindly followed their Watchers (like Kendra) and wouldn't fair as well as Holtz and his group against certain vampires.

 

[white avenger]

I think that the thing that made Holtz so formidable wasn't his individual skill and experience, though that was, obviously, quite extensive. I think that it was the facilities that he could command that made him such a threat to vampires in general, and Angelus in particular, once he became fixated on him. Holtz worked for the Church, which gave him basically unlimited funds to buy weapons and hire fighters, plus the power to assure the cooperation of any local authorities who might have otherwise proposed any sort of interference. Holtz was an excellent fighter in his own right, but he was, despite all of his skill and experience, only one single mortal man. If one vampire couldn't handle him, then two or even three certainly could have. But Holtz commanded a well equipped, highly trained, motivated army, and no family of vampires could stand before that kind of concentrated force.

 

[Jaeger]

Let's not forget that Holtz, on his own and armed only with a sword, killed a group of Wolfram & Hart commandos armed with guns. I think an inexperienced slayer would have been killed in that situation. That being said, Holtz is nothing compared to a well trained and experienced slayer like Buffy or Faith.