Holtz

N

Nikkolas

Glory/Dawn Shipper.......
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
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237
Age
37
Location
Fort Worth, TX
Was Holtz in the end as terrible and curel as Angelus?

For me, this is how I feel.
What happened to him was horrific and one of the most heinous things ever done by Angelus. I hold nothing against the man for seeking vengeance on Angelus.
But as with so many others on a quest for revenge, he involved people who had done him no wrong. Having Justine kill him and framing Angel for the murder to fool Connor, these were cruel acts to two very innocent an dimpressionable people who followed him.

I won't say in the end that he became as terrible as the thing he hated...but he came close.
 
To be totally honest, I partially agree. Holtz is something of a tragic figure but he essentially became a liability to the good fight when he became obsessed with vengeange. He essentially endangered innocent lives in his quest for revenge, not exactly the stuff champions are made of. The thing is he was a champion to begin with.
 
I absolutely despise Holtz. When they started this storyline, this is when the show went downhill IMO. I never liked the character of Holtz or the actor who played him. Bah.
 
Holtz was a man dedicated to a mission, the destruction of all vampires, until Darla and Angelus made the whole thing personal by slaughtering his family. That drove him across the line from dedication to fanaticism, and that, no doubt reinforced by his having to execute his youngest daughter, turned his fanaticism into insanity. What was originally a man dedicated to the cause of destroying the world's monsters became little, if any, better than the monsters that he hunted, even going so far as to betray Connor, his pseudo-son and the last person in the world who actually loved and trusted him.

What's not to love about a man like that?
 
F
Frketson
You've really turned my view around!
I see your point, but I still don't like the character.
Maybe it's 'cause the actor's acting style reminded me of the sleazy old men in the bars who keep leering and wanting to buy you drinks to see if you'll give in and....
Ok, TMI. 😉
 
white avenger said:
Holtz was a man dedicated to a mission, the destruction of all vampires, until Darla and Angelus made the whole thing personal by slaughtering his family. That drove him across the line from dedication to fanaticism, and that, no doubt reinforced by his having to execute his youngest daughter, turned his fanaticism into insanity. What was originally a man dedicated to the cause of destroying the world's monsters became little, if any, better than the monsters that he hunted, even going so far as to betray Connor, his pseudo-son and the last person in the world who actually loved and trusted him.

What's not to love about a man like that?
Click to expand...





"I'm not asking you to follow me into hell. Just help send me there."

In his final moments, Holtz knew he had become EXACTLY what he once hunted.


Pure Evil.

Daniel's soul died that fateful night with his family, centuries ago. Benediction was better than the previous episode overall.

However, I don't care for Connor or this storyline.

Want to see more of Wesley and Lilah, they're quite saucy together. Great dialogue.

loved when Lorne told off Cousin Oliver, 00PS I mean Conner.
 
Holtz is a prick, I don't believe Angle/Angelus are responsible for each other so I cannot sympathize with his plight at all, I don't care what's happened to you it doesn't justify what he did. He was planning to kill Angel (an innocent man) and all his friends (more innocent) who themselves save innocent people.
 
Holtz was a champion of man before he started a quest for vengeance which was selfish and that's what made him as bad as Angelus when a hero starts becoming selfish he becomes the very thing he hunts.

Like Harvey Dent said in the dark knight you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
 
I hated this villain! At first when he showed in the flashbacks I was interested, but then he just got stupid. He didn't really do anything. He was just the puppet master who had other people do his dirty work and die for his cause. Aside from killing those Wolfram and Hart guys, he really didn't do any fighting. He didn't even have the guts to steal Connor on his own. I understand that he didn't really want to kill Angel just make him suffer like the way he did, but the affect would have been better had he actually done the act of stealing Connor himself. Connor's idea of how to torture Angel makes a lot more sense and is a lot more convincing then what Holtz did.

I think the season would have been better if it focused on the issues between Wesley and Angel Inc. They could have done the whole thing with Wes stealing Connor and Connor somehow getting sent to a hell dimension, but then focus on relations between them instead of bringing up the whole Holtz thing again.
 
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