Homosexuality - Genetics or Environment?

[Willow Rosenberg]

Do you believe one's "choice" to be a homosexual is due to their genetics (meaning it wouldn't be a choice, they were born homosexual) or through the environment they were raised in?

Or is it a combination of both?

I saw a piece on the news concerning this the other day. I'm going to try to find the article to post some scientific facts, but I'd still like to hear your opinions...

 

[eponinethen]

(I can't believe I voted "Not sure!" on this.)
I'm not sure what I believe although I think this is an interesting question. First, I don't see the question as "What makes you homosexual", but "What makes you homosexual, heterosexual or bisexual", but that's not important...

Well, I like to believe it's something you're born with, because I've always believed it's something you can't change (or choose). But at the same time I'm a fan of the thought that you're born quite.. without a personality and that most things have to do with the way you're raised.
But, even though I voted "not sure", I'm gonna have to say I believe more in the thought that it's something you're born with..

 

[Amber Benson]

Wow, I was wondering when this one would come up 😛

But being a Lesbian myself, I can attest to the fact that it is my STRONG belief that you are born with one distinct path, be it homosexuality, heterosexuality or even bi-sexuality. Some people realize what they were meant for earlier than others, and some take years. I'm only 20, and I see it as a blessing that I found out when I did. It wasn't too early so I'd be shunned as it being a "phase", and it wasn't too late for me to think that there was nothing out there for me.

I think its funny how some people think it is a disease that you just pick up from your surroundings. I've been told several times that my children are going to turn out "gay" because I happen to be. This is definately not the case. Any "homosexual" can tell you that we don't recruit for "our team", it's just our way of life, we don't try to make it other peoples too.

 

[Willow Rosenberg]

I said both.

I can't find the article, but what they were saying was that it's not just one gene as they had originally thought, but a combination of genes as well as "nurture" factors.

 

[Amber Benson]

Actually I think I might know what you are talking about. I had an article brought to my attention not too long ago that said it was scientifically proven that homosexuals are missing the part of their DNA that makes them physically attracted to the opposite sex. Sounds funny right now, but it was pretty official. *I knew I was missing something, who knew it was DNA 😉*

 

[eponinethen]

I had an article brought to my attention not too long ago that said it was scientifically proven that homosexuals are missing the part of their DNA that makes them physically attracted to the opposite sex.

Uh, I don't like the sound of that. Well, it sounds like something bad. It sounds like there are not supposed to be gay/bi people (not that I believe they have a higher purpose or anything but, anyway).

 

[Willow02]

I wouldn't necessarily consider it genetics, I would just say its apart of who you are. You could have dated the opposite sex for however many years and be content and everything and not have the slightest feeling that your a homosexual then 5 years later go and date the same sex and still be content, your still the same person you were 5 years prior.

 

[Amber Benson]

Some people can stay the same person throught out that major change. But if you think about it, your orientation is a big part of who you are. Its not EVERYTHING that you are, but it sets a sort of basis. I'm probably saying things wrong, but it seems to work out in my head.

Basically, you are who you are... Whatever changes you may encounter, it doesnt change WHO you are in she sense that, changing your clothing style wouldnt either.

I hope that clears up my madness. 😛

 

[eponinethen]

I'm with Willow on this, it's not that big of a deal really. If you change your mind, back and forth, who cares? (Well, you might care but, if you don't see it as a problem it doesn't need to be, at all.)

 

[ChasingCharisma]

Well, I'm a believer in choice... I don't care what influence genetics or society may have, I don't believe anyone can say that they do not choose their fate, at least in the ultimate evaluation. Two people, experiencing exactly the same situation and distending from the same genetics may still make different choices...

Homosexuality would make a lot more sense to me if somebody just came out and said, "I got tired of hairy, stinky men!!" and so on...

At any rate... I'd say more, but I'm probably the odd-man-out here...

 

[eponinethen]

Well, I asorta agree with you ChasingCharisma.. But you don't have choose not to like "hairy, stinky men" to be a lesbian. I was never straight before I was gay, it's not like you have to "realize" or decide or become gay.. It can be the "natural choice" for some people.

 

[Jill_Valentine]

Well, I'm a believer in choice... I don't care what influence genetics or society may have, I don't believe anyone can say that they do not choose their fate, at least in the ultimate evaluation. Two people, experiencing exactly the same situation and distending from the same genetics may still make different choices...

Homosexuality would make a lot more sense to me if somebody just came out and said, "I got tired of hairy, stinky men!!" and so on...

At any rate... I'd say more, but I'm probably the odd-man-out here...

No fate but what we make? Certainly. But that's a discussion very distinct from the question of why people are physically attracted to members of their own gender. I believe in choosing my own fate, but I don't (and can't) choose who makes my IQ drop about a hundred points simply based on their physical appearrance.

As to... er... "hairy stinky men" - I feel the need to assure men that my sexual preference is not a personal affront to them. Really. Lads, I'm sure you're lovely. ("Honest, I have lots of male friends!")

I'm inclined to lean towards genetics, and if it's true that we really do lack a certain gene, then hey, no shame in that, given that a similar gene quirk gave me brown eyes. However, one of the big problems with that explanation is that if it were true, then wouldn't the "gay" gene have made itself endangered by now?

Environment doesn't really convince me, because my environment is geared quite unsubtley against what it considers deviant sexuality. To argue that environment is a deciding factor is to imply a certain degree of choice, and if I could have chosen, I would have chosen long ago to be nice and normal...

 

[ChasingCharisma]

No fate but what we make? Certainly. But that's a discussion very distinct from the question of why people are physically attracted to members of their own gender. I believe in choosing my own fate, but I don't (and can't) choose who makes my IQ drop about a hundred points simply based on their physical appearrance.

I cannot deny that we have certain proclivities and or tendencies inherited from primordial goo, but I refuse to believe that there are distinctions between destiny and the numerous decisions that constitute it. Persons in history did not do what they did by accident; and sexual preference, at one point or another determines our outcome---who we associate with, how we spend our time, our outlook on the world, not only in today's climate but in those of the ancient world also...

As to... er... "hairy stinky men" - I feel the need to assure men that my sexual preference is not a personal affront to them. Really. Lads, I'm sure you're lovely. ("Honest, I have lots of male friends!")

LOL! I don't know that I meant it that way... Obviously, I'm no lesbian, so at most I'll be simplifying an inclination that no doubt distends from much more complex motives than men's stereotypically poor hygiene and/or grooming. Personally, though, I'm not even approaching lovely, thanks be to the grandeur of woman magnets like Brad Pitt and Johnny Depp. (I have some theories regarding the new male aesthetic post-70's (or later) women's liberation movement... but anyway)

I'm inclined to lean towards genetics, and if it's true that we really do lack a certain gene, then hey, no shame in that, given that a similar gene quirk gave me brown eyes. However, one of the big problems with that explanation is that if it were true, then wouldn't the "gay" gene have made itself endangered by now?

That's something I've wondered myself... but I think the human species isn't just here for survival. It's obvious that whether you believe in God or nature that human beings were equipped with some superior tools, enabling them to distance themselves from survival instincts at least long enough to found cities, discover technologies, etc. (disregard for environmental sanctity notwithstanding) So to some extent we're here for more than "existence."

Environment doesn't really convince me, because my environment is geared quite unsubtley against what it considers deviant sexuality. To argue that environment is a deciding factor is to imply a certain degree of choice, and if I could have chosen, I would have chosen long ago to be nice and normal...

I wonder how strong that argument is (your personal understanding still being a very potent point) given that, though I am not homosexual I still am a "freak" in my own little corner of the world; though I tell myself I would like to be "normal" (whatever that means, lacking a mid-50's musical motif) I still choose to do "other," to be other. That is, I've got my own chemical and/or behavioral proclivities that keep me from my purported goals. In the absence of actively doing otherwise I am choosing against that alternative.... just some thoughts... Good discussion!!!

 

[Jill_Valentine]

I cannot deny that we have certain proclivities and or tendencies inherited from primordial goo, but I refuse to believe that there are distinctions between destiny and the numerous decisions that constitute it. Persons in history did not do what they did by accident; and sexual preference, at one point or another determines our outcome---who we associate with, how we spend our time, our outlook on the world, not only in today's climate but in those of the ancient world also...

But nobody chooses to like, say, brussel sprouts. Certainly, as somebody's taste buds develop, they can develop a liking for them. Other people - normal people, if you ask me - will forever regard them as the unholy leafy spheres of Lucifer himself. There is a choice in this circumstance - whether to eat the damn things because they're good for you or whether to go and have a Big Mac instead - but the parameters have already been set. The only choice tacked onto sexuality is whether to act on it or not. The attractions themselves can be suppressed, but you can't stop being attracted to one gender or another at will. Yes, I've just compared human sexuality to brussel sprouts. Put that in your pipe and smoke it Kinsey.

LOL! I don't know that I meant it that way... Obviously, I'm no lesbian, so at most I'll be simplifying an inclination that no doubt distends from much more complex motives than men's stereotypically poor hygiene and/or grooming. Personally, though, I'm not even approaching lovely, thanks be to the grandeur of woman magnets like Brad Pitt and Johnny Depp. (I have some theories regarding the new male aesthetic post-70's (or later) women's liberation movement... but anyway)

😀 For what it's worth, neither Mr. Depp nor Mr. Pitt groom terribly well unless there's a premiere and/or girl to grace. Seriously, I know quite a number of straight guys who consider the concept of female homosexuality close to a personal insult. I find it bizarre. Given that we have such an important common interest, you'd think we'd get along eh? To be honest, I've never had a particularly bad experience with men. It's not like I woke up one morning yelling "Hey! Jesus! Men are crap! Did everybody else know this? Really? Where was I? Oh, and nobody thought to tell me? Oh that's just perfect..."

That's something I've wondered myself... but I think the human species isn't just here for survival. It's obvious that whether you believe in God or nature that human beings were equipped with some superior tools, enabling them to distance themselves from survival instincts at least long enough to found cities, discover technologies, etc. (disregard for environmental sanctity notwithstanding) So to some extent we're here for more than "existence."

I agree that we've detached ourselves from our dominant natural instincts enough to create a society largely independant of the rules of the Natural World. What I mean is, by it's very nature, the "gay" gene would have bred itself out of the wider population a long time ago simply by ...er... not .. breeding. However, if we eliminate both environment and genetics as factors then that's opening up a whole new field about what constitutes a personality...

I wonder how strong that argument is (your personal understanding still being a very potent point) given that, though I am not homosexual I still am a "freak" in my own little corner of the world; though I tell myself I would like to be "normal" (whatever that means, lacking a mid-50's musical motif) I still choose to do "other," to be other. That is, I've got my own chemical and/or behavioral proclivities that keep me from my purported goals. In the absence of actively doing otherwise I am choosing against that alternative.... just some thoughts... Good discussion!!!

Very good discussion, and I'm enjoying it immensely. I should add at this point, (though it'll likely undermine much of what I've just said) that I'm not actually out yet. Neither my extended family or friends know. Admittedly, I'm 19, but as yet my sexuality has offered me few tangible benefits, to be perfectly honest. I don't relish the role of "other" and the sense of isolation and unhappiness that comes with the package are things that I would gladly trade in for a white wedding and not being told I was going to hell every other sunday. My point is that I have no reason - masochistic or otherwise - to want to be the outsider, and I've invested considerable effort into maintaining the facade of a more mundane sort of freak. However, I appreciate that everything I've just typed sounds unnervingly like your standard urple writer. I assure you that if my intention was to play poor-me-victim I would have wedged in more horribly nonsensical metaphors about ravens and orchids and things.

 

[Soulgasm]

i like to think of myself as the biggest lesbo ever...because...i luv gurls...


ehhh...ehe alright....who knows...i voted both...but...as long as you're cool with all sexual preferences...who cares??

 

[Frenchy Faith]

I cannot deny that we have certain proclivities and or tendencies inherited from primordial goo, but I refuse to believe that there are distinctions between destiny and the numerous decisions that constitute it. Persons in history did not do what they did by accident; and sexual preference, at one point or another determines our outcome---who we associate with, how we spend our time, our outlook on the world, not only in today's climate but in those of the ancient world also...

There is something I would disagree with about choice on the matter. It's about children who, at the earliest age, already have obvious tendancy to prefer the same gender. You can't really say that it's choice, when a little child (after the period when there are no different made between the two sex, but before adolescence) goes for homosexual preferences, because, if it was a "child-ish" choice, they could change later on, when older ; but if it's something that happens from the very childhood, that is to say, at a time when everything is so changing & unsure, & that you still feel the same at 20 for instance, then can you say it was a choice? Since it's something that seems to be deep into someone, I wouldn't say it's a choice.
Or if you chose to be "normal" when you feel homosexual, & that you force yourself into hetero relationship, then can you say that you chose to be homo since you're trying with all your might to have hetero relation?

I picked I'm not sure too, I think it's both but I would say the same as eponine, I would tend to think us "neutral" when born, but I'm not sure, because obviously, the environment isn't the only thing since you can't make a list of "things that turn you gay".

 

[Mr. Pointy]

I really don't know what determines one's sexual orientation but I don't believe it matters - as long as you can accept it and live with it, it's all good 😉

Like Soulgasm, I've always considered myself an honorary lezza - ever since my brother and I completed a Sunday tabloid quiz entitled "Are you a lesbian?". We both were, as it turned out 😉 🙂

 

[eponinethen]

The only problem I ever had with accepting it, was the fact that I thought it was really cool to be gayl. (This was when I was ten or eleven.) I wanted to be a lesbian but I knew I couldn't be since they were cool, and I so obviously wasn't cool at all.

Seriously, I know quite a number of straight guys who consider the concept of female homosexuality close to a personal insult. I find it bizarre. Given that we have such an important common interest, you'd think we'd get along eh?

Really..? All my straight male friends (not that I have that many) are fine with lesbians. What I find more bizarre are guys who consider lesbians to be a turn-on. What's that all about? Is it just the "We want what we can't have" thing..?

I picked I'm not sure too, I think it's both but I would say the same as eponine, I would tend to think us "neutral" when born, but I'm not sure, because obviously, the environment isn't the only thing since you can't make a list of "things that turn you gay".

Hm, but wouldn't it be really cool if you could..? 😀
No really, I don't think you can "turn gay". (Except for Willow, she can do whatever she wants.)

 

[JollyApe]

A very interestin topic which brings out a whole lot more questions than it answers. What part of ourselves are we born with and what is caused by outside factors. Are we in fact born "Tabula rasa" or have our genes already decided what our future is going to be like.

I don't know what I want to believe and I don't know what to believe. Personally I'm one of those that believe in culture and not science, so I'm having problems linking science to our brain and spirit. I don't believe in God or an outer force either, but the answers science gives us aren't any more understandable to me, than the ones religion gives us.

Ok trying to get back to the topic. The thing is that a question like this is ultimately an existensial question and before I know who, what and why I'm here I can't begin to understand or answer whether or not our sexuality is based on genetics or life experience.

So I guess you can put me up for some of that "Not sure".

 

[doppelgänger2]

Even though a lot of good points have been made here, about sexuality being something you are kind-of born with, i still voted Not sure! Why is very simple; I don't know if there is a "right" answer to this question, and I really don't know if I care. It's kind of like that catchy little slogan "We are queer, we are here, get used to it" except that I say "I am queer and I don't care" (saying it so it rhymes)

BUT, i do tend to lean against the born-with-it-side of the whole question, but I'm not sure I believe so much in genetics. I rather see my sexuality the same way I see my taste in food, clothes and music. It's just a part of me. If I would start thinking why I love mexican food, the bestest answer would probably be "because it's tasty and I just like it."
Well, the same answer can be applied on the question "Why am I gay?" Because girls are tasty and I just like them.
Not that I can't find guys rather good looking. I'm SO in love with Johnny Depp, but he doesn't quite start a party in my pants, so to speak.

I am so happy with me and my saphic life, so I don't really bother to give myself head aches while trying to figure out what made me gay or why I'm gay.

And on the subject of why straight guys have lesbians as a big turn-on, I really don't get that. I would like a straight guy with this turn-on to explain it to me. You are free to PM me 😀