Hot Topic: Is the Buffyverse better or worse off because of magic?

[Athena]

Is the Buffyverse better or worse off because of magic? Is magic a necessary component in the show, or could the show have worked without witches?

 

[white avenger]

If you accept Season 9 as canon, the Buffy universe isn't only better off because of the element of magic, but was actually dependent on it to avoid sliding into virtual chaos, and, as long as magic exists, it is a commodity that can be either used or abused, depending on the discretion of the individual user.

If you deny the comics as canon, you still have to accept the fact that most, if not all, of the denizens of the Buffyverse, including vampires, demons, witches, and even Slayers, could not exist in a world where magic and the supernatural did not exist.

Either way, the only way that the Buffyverse could even exist would be with the element of magic being present.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

There really weren't that many witches on the show to begin with, so yes, I think it could survive without witches. But I never saw witches and magic as synonymous. That being said, yeah, you could get rid of that as well. It would have been a more grounded (if you can call a show like that grounded) show.

 

[Mr Trick]

On balance I would say better off without it. It doesn't quite gel with the rest of the verse. Magic in fiction seems a bit old hat too (even for the 90s). I do like Willow becoming a witch for her character. They just should have cut down on it in S6.

 

[Fool for Buffy]

I think magic was one of the most necessary parts of the show, especially considering the fact that the slayer line is magic and came from it. Willow becoming a witch was a great character arc, and some of the best episodes of the series are "spell gone wrong" episodes. Without magic, each season except maybe 1 would be missing a huge development that makes what happened in the season possible. Oh and Angel wouldn't exist without magic. And we cannot have that.

 

[The Bronze]

Taking out magic altogether would have changed so much that you'd be looking at a completely different show. I think they fell into a trap of not defining magic very well and letting it be whatever was needed at the time. A little bit more thought put into the scope of magic would have been ideal.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Taking out magic altogether would have changed so much that you'd be looking at a completely different show. I think they fell into a trap of not defining magic very well and letting it be whatever was needed at the time. A little bit more thought put into the scope of magic would have been ideal.

I think they fell into the trap of over indulgence. They just had too much and there was nothing special about it. Certainly post S4.

 

[The Bronze]

I think they fell into the trap of over indulgence. They just had too much and there was nothing special about it. Certainly post S4.

Yes exactly. It worked well when it took time, effort and a certain amount of raw materials to cast spells. By Season 6 anything could be achieved by finger pointing.

 

[EarthLogic]

Yes exactly. It worked well when it took time effort and a certain amount of raw materials to cast spells. By Season 6 anything could be achieved by finger pointing.

Yeah I hated the Sabrina-esque spark trails. In the early seasons magic was something that required concentration and the ability to access this mysterious kind of powerful energy.

Certainly post S4.

This was a gem from S5 though:

 

[sk]

People has already said what I came here to say...

I think magic is kinda necessary for the show.
It was there from the beginning. Angel's curse is a spell and so on. It would be a very different show without it.

But it really did work better in the early seasons when they actually had to cast a spell.
Research it, get ingredients and whatever.

The "hand waving" magic (or whatever it's called) that comes later, and are taken to the extreme in the comics, isn't as fun imho.

/SK

 

[Priceless]

As everyone has said, the show was based on magic so it was necessary to the storytelling. I also think magic was taken far more seriously in the later seasons and was shown to have more negative consequences, as shown through Willow's arc from season four till the end of the show.

 

[Bop]

I love that Willow's a witch and everything but if you think about it the concept of witches and their spells and magic undermines the concept of slayers in a lot of ways so maybe the show would have been better off without it.

 

[EarthLogic]

I love that Willow's a witch and everything but if you think about it the concept of witches and their spells and magic undermines the concept of slayers in a lot of ways so maybe the show would have been better off without it.

Definitely in later seasons when witches are shown to be able to do almost anything with a flick of finger. That's why early-seasons magic made more sense; it was shown to be difficult and dangerous to perform a spell so being a slayer still had importance when it came to fighting demons.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Definitely in later seasons when witches are shown to be able to do almost anything with a flick of finger. That's why early-seasons magic made more sense; it was shown to be difficult and dangerous to perform a spell so being a slayer still had importance when it came to fighting demons.

Witches, even in the first season, would have made the Slayer obsolete. The minute Willow started gyrating that pencil in the air, by rights she should have become "the Slayer". It was a projectile stake. She could have been sniper, firing off dozens of pencils and killing how herds of vampires.

 

[flow]

She could have been sniper, firing off dozens of pencils and killing how herds of vampires.

Or she could have restored the soul of every vampire.

Still....I like the Buffyverse with witches and magic. It is probably because I just like the Buffyverse the way it is. I am easy to entertain 🙂

flow

 

[EarthLogic]

Witches, even in the first season, would have made the Slayer obsolete. The minute Willow started gyrating that pencil in the air, by rights she should have become "the Slayer". It was a projectile stake. She could have been sniper, firing off dozens of pencils and killing how herds of vampires.

She still lost control of the spinning pencil quite quickly - so it was shown to be something that required practice. Also, Willow was shown to be something of a prodigy when it came to magic; she had a natural and powerful aptitude for it. Think about it, it was the Gypsy Elder woman who cursed Angel with his soul. She probably had the knowledge and experience of decades and yet Willow was able to master it in a couple of goes. Even Amy's high school spells were specific and sort of grounded (basic? I don't know what right word should be) by comparison. To me that showed Willow to have unique potential to channel magic, but that it still required practice. Fast forward to S6 where she and newly de-ratted Amy just point fingers at people and manage to completely transfigure them. Buffyverse magic was far more effective when it was mysterious and something of an unknown.

I have a theory: perhaps the Slayer was created by the Shadowmen in opposition to witches? Patriarchy vs Matriarchy? If the Shadowmen wanted the witches to use their magics to fight demons, but they refused, maybe they created the Slayer in defiance - a woman whose power they could actually control. That would explain why a Slayer exists when witchcraft could easily do the job.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Put me in the limited magic camp. Magic was supposed to be a relic of the Old Ones, it was dangerous, required lots of research, rare ingredients, and prone to backfire. By Season 6, it was closer to Darren is acting funny and Sam thinks Endora is behind it. The Producers never bothered to draw out the rules for magic, either.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

By Season 6, it was closer to Darren is acting funny and Sam thinks Endora is behind it.

Ha! That is awesome. And really, pretty accurate.

 

[RachM]

People have already touched upon how the show started to play a little fast and loose with magic but I wanted to just add that, in my mind, a big problem with magic in the show comes from the Season 6 magic-as-drugs metaphor, which just did not work at all.

Until Season 6, magic had been shown to be a good thing, a weapon to be utilized when the Slayer needed. While Willow's thirst for power and recklessness with magic was already firmly established, the show never portrayed magic itself as a bad thing, as something destructive and "evil" ... until Season 6, with the introduction of Rack and the completely unsubtle magic-is-a-drug metaphor. We literally see Amy and Willow use magic to get high, the way one would do with illicit drugs, and it didn't work because we'd never seen magic used this way before and never saw it function that way again after Season 6.

Additionally, the magic-as-drugs metaphor didn't work because magic had proved to be helpful in many cases before. Buffy could not have defeated Adam or Glory without magic and there were many smaller battles in which Willow's magic proved useful and good. But illicit drugs don't work that way. There is never a point where illicit drugs are "good" or "helpful". You can't use x as a metaphor for drugs if x has been shown to be "good" at some point, because then your metaphor collapses, as it does in BtVS, when Willow is shown in Season 7 to have to learn to control her magic, rather than not use it. In what world would we ever tell a recovering addict to "control" their addiction, rather than give it up completely.

To see how Willow's magic-as-drugs metaphor really falls short, compare it to Supernatural and the storyline involving Sam drinking demon's blood. Supernatural does the metaphor right, showing how, even though the blood makes Sam more powerful and makes him feel better and gives him a "high", it is dangerous and ultimately leads Sam down a very dark path, which culminates in him accidentally freeing Lucifer from his cage. The demon blood is never portrayed in a positive light and after Season 4 Sam is forced to quit cold-turkey, and the series shows him suffering the withdrawal and shows how the addiction never leaves.

Had BtVS gone with power as the addiction, rather than magic itself, it would have worked better and, in my mind, would have allowed for magic within the 'Verse to still function as a force of good and a weapon to be used.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Had BtVS gone with power as the addiction, rather than magic itself, it would have worked better

I've said that numerous times before. It would also have been another point of why Willow was a nasty character masquerading as a sweet and lovable one.