AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
Not really... if Joss isn't involved, then it's not canon at all.
Or there will be two totally unrelated "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" franchises with their own completely separate canons.
How canon is season 8 to you?
- Thread starter zobothehobo
- Start date
Not really... if Joss isn't involved, then it's not canon at all.
Or there will be two totally unrelated "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" franchises with their own completely separate canons.
Not really, personal canon is different than actual canon. And dismissing fictional events is different than pretending real events never happened. It's only problematic when people start insisting their personal canon has to be everyone's personal canon. I mean, I like to pretend S6-8 never happened but I don't go around trying to convince people that they hallucinated them. 😉
A
Abby27
Right. I mean, it does come down to this being a fictional world. You can decide whatever you want! For instance, in my reality, Jenny never died. =p
Skytteflickan88
Proud Spikette
Option number two I would say; Three seperate worlds, three seperate canons.
What if the new movie gets its own comics? That's one canon discussion I think I'll never bother to get involved in. 😀
What if the new movie gets its own comics? That's one canon discussion I think I'll never bother to get involved in. 😀
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
Completely different, which is why it's confusing to use the same word for both.
---------- Post added at 01:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:50 PM ----------
That would be a huge legal can of worms, since Fox definitely owns the trademark to "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" as it pertains to comic books.
Comics based on the new movie would have to be titled something else.
Then again, I'd say the new movie has about a 1-in-4 chance of getting made at all, and much less chance of being successful enough to warrant any kind of merchandising or licensing, so that's a question that's a long way down the road.
Skytteflickan88
Proud Spikette
So I misunderstood? I might have come across as hostile, in that case, sorry.
I just don't see how it could be called a big leap, so I assumed you meant she was bordeline prejudiced after that scene as well.
Taaroko
Gunner of the USS Buffy/Angel
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2011
- Messages
- 438
Personally, I seem to be incapable of respecting the comics (any of them) as canon. It's not because I don't like them (though I really, really don't), it's because they don't feel like the Buffyverse. Everything on the shows, no matter how much I dislike some of it, is automatically and unquestionably canon for me. But not the comics. The Buffyverse is live-action, with movement and music and sound and inflection and real actors all those other things only live-action has (and possibly books, if you have a vivid enough imagination, or animated series, if they're done well). It's three-dimensional. I can't look at this new story told in a silent, two-dimensional medium and properly connect it to the original shows (and it doesn't help that it wasn't told in a timely fashion). I just can't. That works out nicely because of the way I feel about the comics, but I think it would still be true if I liked them. Even though I know it's canon, I can't make myself see it as canon. To me, it's apocrypha for the medium alone.
And then there's the story, which does all kinds of ridiculous things that were never part of the show's lore, the characters' actions and motivations are often real head-scratchers, and there are so many storylines that don't really have a logical reason for occurring at all. Buffy robs banks? Kenny gets revenge on Dawn by...turning her into a giant, a centaur, and a doll? What? That makes no sense! And why on earth did she even date him in the first place? Xander is *friends* with Dracula? Warren is still alive despite being skinless? And a woman exists who isn't repulsed by him? Harmony managed to convince the world that vampires=good, Slayers=bad? Harmony?! Willow is going to live for hundreds of years? And then the Twilight arc blew the smoldering wreckage of my suspension of disbelief completely out of the water. Buffy has Superman-like superpowers? Angel has Superman-like superpowers? The *universe* has a plan? The universe is sentient?! Superpowered space sex creates baby universes? (Seriously, what the hell?!) Spike has a spaceship crewed by bugs? There's a little Seed that's the source of all magic in the world? The Seed is sentient too?! The Master came back? Etc., etc.
So, on the whole, it may officially be canon, but it *feels* like nothing more than one possible continuation of the story, though not a remotely probable one.
And then there's the story, which does all kinds of ridiculous things that were never part of the show's lore, the characters' actions and motivations are often real head-scratchers, and there are so many storylines that don't really have a logical reason for occurring at all. Buffy robs banks? Kenny gets revenge on Dawn by...turning her into a giant, a centaur, and a doll? What? That makes no sense! And why on earth did she even date him in the first place? Xander is *friends* with Dracula? Warren is still alive despite being skinless? And a woman exists who isn't repulsed by him? Harmony managed to convince the world that vampires=good, Slayers=bad? Harmony?! Willow is going to live for hundreds of years? And then the Twilight arc blew the smoldering wreckage of my suspension of disbelief completely out of the water. Buffy has Superman-like superpowers? Angel has Superman-like superpowers? The *universe* has a plan? The universe is sentient?! Superpowered space sex creates baby universes? (Seriously, what the hell?!) Spike has a spaceship crewed by bugs? There's a little Seed that's the source of all magic in the world? The Seed is sentient too?! The Master came back? Etc., etc.
So, on the whole, it may officially be canon, but it *feels* like nothing more than one possible continuation of the story, though not a remotely probable one.
BuffyElevated
Scooby
Well Joss said Season 8 is canon, so like it or not I have to accept that all of it is canon. 🙂 I don't like a lot of Season 6, either, but I have to accept that as canon, so why not Seaosn 8?
Hale Caesar
Sunnydale Nerd
It's canon.
Fans can't exclude what they want from canon because they don't like it. Joss Whedon says it's canon, and it's called "season 8", so all you can do is either like it or not
Fans can't exclude what they want from canon because they don't like it. Joss Whedon says it's canon, and it's called "season 8", so all you can do is either like it or not
BuffyElevated
[No message]
BuffyThoughts
Potential
You Know What I Think
This is Creative Royalism. The concept of "canon," which is derived from religion, has no place in a rational mind.
This is Creative Royalism. The concept of "canon," which is derived from religion, has no place in a rational mind.
BuffyElevated
Scooby
Yes but because he created BtVS, he is the one who gets to say what is real and what's not within these characters's stories.
I don't think of them as canon myself. Even if they weren't full of over-the-top and out-of-character material, I would still have a hard time accepting a different format officially carrying on from the TV series. Both Buffy and Angel had great endings I think, and I don't see the point in tacking more on after that point, especially if it's going to be substandard. Just let them end on a high.
Since it's all fictional anyway, each person is free to decide for themselves how much they want to consider canonical - doesn't harm anyone else to ignore additions to the main story that, for you, taint the series. No point in arguing about it.
Since it's all fictional anyway, each person is free to decide for themselves how much they want to consider canonical - doesn't harm anyone else to ignore additions to the main story that, for you, taint the series. No point in arguing about it.
[slightly incoherent sleep-deprived rant]
I hate the word "canon". It's a non-word with a flimsy definition that boils down to "whatever the majority want it to be". Every debate regarding it resorts to bickering over some stupid term with no real consequence.
I prefer to think of it in terms of "what actually happened in Buffy". And what is Buffy? It's a TV show that ran for 7 seasons. That's all it is to me. I'm a fan of the TV show. I'm not a fan of the comic book. I've never even read the comic book. I just don't care about. I'm here to discuss what I care about and I don't care about comic books, so why should I be forced to discuss it?
Buffy the Vampire Slayer exists, for me, in the form of a TV show. I honestly don't care whatsoever what is "canon" or not, it's not going to make a blind bit of difference to me and my enjoyment of the show.
[/slightly incoherent sleep-deprived rant]
I hate the word "canon". It's a non-word with a flimsy definition that boils down to "whatever the majority want it to be". Every debate regarding it resorts to bickering over some stupid term with no real consequence.
I prefer to think of it in terms of "what actually happened in Buffy". And what is Buffy? It's a TV show that ran for 7 seasons. That's all it is to me. I'm a fan of the TV show. I'm not a fan of the comic book. I've never even read the comic book. I just don't care about. I'm here to discuss what I care about and I don't care about comic books, so why should I be forced to discuss it?
Buffy the Vampire Slayer exists, for me, in the form of a TV show. I honestly don't care whatsoever what is "canon" or not, it's not going to make a blind bit of difference to me and my enjoyment of the show.
[/slightly incoherent sleep-deprived rant]
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
One can call it canon or not. Fictional reality in the Buffyverse is defined by Joss Whedon. His creation, his story, his prerogative. When a person creates a story, that person is the one who gets to tell it and make the rules. It's not communal property.
You can ignore whatever parts of it you don't like, as long as you don't expect others to do the same.
You can ignore whatever parts of it you don't like, as long as you don't expect others to do the same.
Skanky Vamp
Sniffin' the Slayer
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2008
- Messages
- 26,460
Just playing devils advocate here, but you say that since he created the series, BtVS, he gets to decide what is canon. Now, what about Angel? Because it was David Greenwalt that wanted to get that series going. So when Joss writes 'Angel' in the comics, is that canon; even though he did not create the series?
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
Greenwalt and Whedon were credited as co-creators of "Angel." During the time he was associated with the show, I'd agree that Greenwalt was equally a source of canon. But he voluntarily left "Angel" in order to do "Jake 2.0," and after that point Joss became the main creative decision-maker.
If Greenwalt were to say anything about "Angel" seasons 1-3, I would tend to consider that canon, with no evidence to the contrary.
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
I guess so... but when I talk about the Buffyverse, it's Joss's canon I'll be talking about. Those who don't accept his canon will be talking about a different story with the same title. Could get confusing.
I agree. When I'm discussing BtVS, I'm gonna include S8 in my discussions, and having someone replying, "I don't consider what you said canon," would be a downer to the discussion.
Buffyverse Fan
* The 28th *
Speaking of discussions, does anyone who has read After the Fall have any guess as to why TPTB didn't send Cordy to ask (Tw)Angel to stop being evil-ish.
Or why W&H didn't send Wes to try and stop (Tw)Angel from ushering in a new world order, which would certainly piss W&H off (see their reaction to Jasmine's & The First's attempted nwos).
That is since AtF established that both groups are capable of summoning Cordy & Wes, respectively, to Angel's side.