How do you feel about Joyce through the series?

Hmm, maybe we need to take a poll of how many parents on here think Joyce is a crappy parent, versus those members who are not parents. I think I know how that would turn out.
 
Okay after reading everyone's opinion on here, I'm just gonna throw mine into the mix.

First of all, I like Joyce- I mean I'm not gonna be running the Joyce Summers Parade but I do like her. Secondly, I'm not a parent (so this is not a parental view) but I'm very close to my own (single) mother and am often able to see the parent's side of things when it comes to tv/film storylines (and in life when the occasion occurs, haha).

I don't think Joyce is a bad parent- I think in the first season she is a neglectful parent. Yes, she has her work, but I think the fact you've just uprooted your lives and your daughter burned down a school gym means she might need to take priority for a little while. But I don't hate her here, I just think she needs a parental nudge/wake-up call.
In season 2, she is more tuned in and she and Buffy have typical teenage daughter/mother relationship. They have arguments, they have bonding moments and she's pretty much clueless about what's going on in Buffy's life- but what teenager doesn't hide anything. My Mum never met anyone I dated when I was teeanger, didn't even know I was dating, was only clued in on the very close friends I had, and I spent a lot of time, as I recall, thinking I knew SO much more than she did. So I don't think Joyce is bad parent in being clueless and then grounding Buffy a lot (I mean if I had had bad grades, had bad attendance, seemed to be in trouble a bit and seemed to be out at all hours I would have been way more than grounded. So I think Joyce is fairly flipping lenient by just grounding her). And as far as the huge argument in Becoming- are you seriously telling me you've never had a huge blow up of a fight with one of your parents as a teenager? I remember a real screaming match with my Mum in the living room when I was 17 and I stormed out (before I realised I had no purse with me and so could not go further than the churchyard). But it didn't mean we didn't love each other, or that either us were being a bad parent or daughter or that we didn't make up as though it had never happened. I think Buffy would have ran away regardless of what Joyce said, because of what she had to go through with Angel. I think she basically had a breakdown.
And having a go at Giles in Anne is less to do with being angry at him and more needing someone to lash out while she frets about her daughter- and we've ALL done that, I'm sure. I mean admittedly, most of them you apologise and tell them it's not about them and that's about something else, but still.
And yelling at Buffy in Dead Man's Party...well, I have to say I agreed with Joyce and Xander. My attitude was 'running away is not going to help. You feel you can't talk to your friends or that they don't want to talk to you then do something about it; do not sulk and pack your bags like a petulant child'. Plus Joyce would have been worried to death about Buffy the entire time and when she came back she tried not to talk about it and to just try and be welcoming and try to carry on as normal (it wasn't working but she tried) and she was just about to freely put her through it all again. Yeah, I'd be pretty ticked off too. And I think my Mum would have been a lot harsher to me...it would have probably involved one of her classic lines which she said to a kid at her school the other day "I have a story for you...it ends with GET OVER IT"

So yeah I don't think Joyce is a bad parent- she's just one of several typical examples of people trying to parent teenagers. And when we see her improve in season 4 and season 5 that is because Buffy has grown up. I think Kristine Sutherland (who plays Joyce) said in an interview that we see Joyce through Buffy's eyes so when Buffy has an adult's perspective of her Mum so do we.

But yeah I like her. I think she's a good Mum who tries her best and is a good person.
 
[MENTION=12186]Tuppence[/MENTION],

But at that point she was well cookie-drugged...so not quite in control of her responses.
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So were Xander and Willow, and they both listened to Buffy. All the cookies did was make you complacent. Ignoring abuse and calling your daughter a liar? That was all Joyce.

Tuppence said:
And yelling at Buffy in Dead Man's Party...well, I have to say I agreed with Joyce and Xander. My attitude was 'running away is not going to help. You feel you can't talk to your friends or that they don't want to talk to you then do something about it; do not sulk and pack your bags like a petulant child'. Plus Joyce would have been worried to death about Buffy the entire time and when she came back she tried not to talk about it and to just try and be welcoming and try to carry on as normal (it wasn't working but she tried) and she was just about to freely put her through it all again. Yeah, I'd be pretty ticked off too. And I think my Mum would have been a lot harsher to me...it would have probably involved one of her classic lines which she said to a kid at her school the other day "I have a story for you...it ends with GET OVER IT"
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But you're forgetting the catalyst for why Buffy was running away again in "Dead Man's Party". Buffy overhears Joyce telling her friend that life would have been easier had Buffy never come back at all. I know she wasn't expecting Buffy to hear that, but she said it nonetheless. What kind of a thing is that to say? Who does that?
 
Kean
Kean
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Robb Stark said:
[MENTION=12186]Tuppence[/MENTION],



So were Xander and Willow, and they both listened to Buffy. All the cookies did was make you complacent. Ignoring abuse and calling your daughter a liar? That was all Joyce.



But you're forgetting the catalyst for why Buffy was running away again in "Dead Man's Party". Buffy overhears Joyce telling her friend that life would have been easier had Buffy never come back at all. I know she wasn't expecting Buffy to hear that, but she said it nonetheless. What kind of a thing is that to say? Who does that?
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What she actually says is "having Buffy home, I thought it would make it all better. But in some ways it's almost worse". Which is fair enough; I think even Buffy would have to agree. While she was away Joyce was worried to death but they both didn't have to confront the slayer thing and why she left in the first place. But once she's home, things may be good in some ways but there's this big white elephant in the room and a whole boat load of new problems. So yeah in some ways it was worse- she wasn't saying she thought buffy shouldn't have come home.
 
VisionGirl said:
Hmm, maybe we need to take a poll of how many parents on here think Joyce is a crappy parent, versus those members who are not parents. I think I know how that would turn out.
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That's not really an answer though. That's just saying "you're not a parent so you couldn't understand", which isn't very productive. You're right, not being a parent obviously prevents me from having that perspective, but the arguments outlined by myself and others still stand, and just saying "you aren't a parent though" doesn't refute them, you know?

Does me not being a parent change the fact that Joyce never asks why there is blood in Buffy's shirts, over and over again? Does it change the fact that Joyce turns the blinders on when Buffy tells her Ted is threatening her? I don't think so.
 
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Up until after "Dead Man's Party," I had mixed feelings about Joyce. I could understand in Season 1 because they had just moved because of what happened at Buffy's old school, but she kind of pissed me off in Season 2. "Ted" and "Bad Eggs" are two examples. She doesn't take Buffy seriously when Ted threatens her over cheating at mini-golf. I don't care what Ted slipped in that food, when your daughter says your boyfriend threatened her, LISTEN to her! And in "Bad Eggs" she chastises Buffy for not being in the library. How about, "Gee Buffy, thanks for saving us again sweetheart." Nope, grounded instead. And I pretty much wanted to smack silly anybody who wasn't Buffy or Giles in "Dead Man's Party" because of how insensitive and avoidy they were in that episode. After that though, Joyce got alot better. I can tell Joyce gained alot of respect and admiration for Buffy later on. I loved in "This Year's Girl" where she tells Faith that Buffy will be there any minute to kick Faith's ass. I feel Joyce really grew as a character, which made her death even more devastating.
 
Well, I think it's me being lazy, because we've discussed this numerous times over the years. But I don't expect anyone to remember that lol, especially since these are in the Cemetary:
https://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=54549&highlight=joyce
https://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=58015&highlight=joyce

I'll bottom-line it by copying & pasting what I said in this thread:
And hey, when you compare her to the other mothers/parents in the Buffyverse, Joyce is a f'ing saint! Faith's mother is an alcoholic, Willow's mother hardly knows her ("Willow, you cut off your hair. Huh, that's a new look." "Yeah, it's just a sudden whim I had "” in August."), Xander has to remind his mother who he is, Tara's family is abusive, Amy's mother is plain crazy/evil, Spike's mother hated him (OK, so she was a vampire).... Shall I go on?

She's an involved, loving mother who is attempting to understand and guide her daughter, as well as protect her from harm. She makes mistakes, a lot, but also evolves. Well, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
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Blaze
Blaze
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VisionGirl said:
Well, I think it's me being lazy, because we've discussed this numerous times over the years. But I don't expect anyone to remember that lol, especially since these are in the Cemetary:
https://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=54549&highlight=joyce
https://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=58015&highlight=joyce

I'll bottom-line it by copying & pasting what I said in this thread:
Click to expand...

Sure, there are plenty of poor parents in the Buffyverse (and I do appreciate the list, because I didn't know it was that bad 😛), but that doesn't mean a whole lot to me in regards to Joyce. That's like me saying I'm an awesome person simply because I know other people whose lives are more screwed up than mine. That doesn't really make sense.
 
I
itssmiletime
Exactly.
EVIL UU
EVIL UU
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I have to admit I'm not a Joyce fan. She was ignorant to the point of stupidity in the early seasons of Buffy (you washed blood out of your daughter's clothes and didn't question it?!). After Dawn is introduced she feels Buffy is responsible for Dawn to the point that she blames Buffy when things Buffy had no control over go wrong. But these are somewhat small things and no parent is perfect. I do think overall she was a good mom and would have done anything for her daughters.

It's her attitude in Dead Man's Party that I can't forgive though. I can forgive kicking Buffy out of the house in an emotionally high moment, but I can't get over how she takes no responsibility for it and just brushes it aside when she's yelling at Buffy in DMP.

ETA: I take back the "somewhat small" comment after thinking about it. Nope, not questioning the blood is a pretty darn big deal.
 
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