How does Everyone Feel about the Comic Continuations?

[The Ferg]

1. I'm pretty sure this thread fits here because it a) spans multiple seasons, and b) has to do with Buffy and Angel.
2. I'm not talking about the crappy old comics, Fray, Tales..., or anything else. Strictly Buffy Season 8 & 9, and Angel: AtF and '& Faith.'
3. I know there's a thread in the BS9 section about whether we still keep up with the comics or not, but I think that is more specific to BS9/A&F and the discussion is more about whats coming out now.

I'm asking this question because I don't really have a feel of how BB as a whole feels about the comics. To me, regardless of quality, they are official continuations. As in, we can hate it as much as we want, but it's still going to be what actually happens. A whole lot of vocal people say that the comics are nothing compared to the show, and I disagree whole-heartedly. Every season has high points. For every Passion, there's Ted. For every Wolves at the Gate, there's Predators and Prey. The comics definitely have their faults.. but they're a good read. No one can tell me that some of the story arcs aren't good. The entirety of After the Fall and BS8 1-20 are seriously some of the best comics I've ever read. And that's being compared to some great freakin comics. The least you could do is give them a chance.

 

[EVIL UU]

Mostly, I feel like this. This picture tells you everything you need to know, this, whatever this thing is, that's Buffy comics essentially, Buffy's pretty sister, that's us, the fans. Yeah.
[MENTION=7939]The Ferg[/MENTION]

To me, regardless of quality, they are official continuations.

That's true and I don't remember anybody here questioning that. Comics are canon.

As in, we can hate it as much as we want, but it's still going to be what actually happens.

That's true as well but frankly, ( almost ) nobody cares. Mostly we're just fans of the show. It's like with Star Wars, there's a lot of works out there that are considered canon but most fans are happy with just the movies.

The least you could do is give them a chance.

Why? You know, I did but I wish I had not.

 

[The Ferg]

I don't know why I'm even answering this, it's not like anyone uses the "Comics" forum.

Why? You know, I did but I wish I had not.

Yea, that might not've been the best thing to put at the end of the post. I now realize that my op was very ranty, a little rude, and a lot of assumptions were thrown around. Sorry about that.

Also, I don't really understand what you don't like about it? I just reread AtF and S8 and they are both (well, the first half of S8) fantastic! Like seriously, they got me just as excited and enthralled as the show got me. I guess I just don't get where you're coming from with the hatred and all.

[MENTION=7939]The Ferg[/MENTION]

That's true as well but frankly, ( almost ) nobody cares. Mostly we're just fans of the show. It's like with Star Wars, there's a lot of works out there that are considered canon but most fans are happy with just the movies.

If no one cares why is there 4 entire boards dedicated to them? And is Star Wars really the same? It's not like there was Star Wars: Episode VII comic and George Lucas himself wrote it."

 

[Robb Stark]

I have a hard rule for myself that when it comes to comics, I don't prejudge them until I've read them myself. I've read far too many good comics that I'd heard were bad. I'd heard very mixed things about S8 before setting out to read them, and I'd read them when they were first released a few years ago but wasn't really into them.

However, I picked up the library editions a few months back and I've been really liking them. They're good, so far, but I don't think they even remotely compare to the quality of the show. That's obviously just an opinion. My main problem is that outside of the dialogue from time to time, it just doesn't...feel like Buffy. I know that's kind of vague, but the plots seemed so out there that it didn't even really resemble the show. I suppose in certain ways that's fine, but it hasn't captured me the same way the show has. I just read the arc where Dawn is turned into a doll by some crazy Japetto (who wasn't explained at all, which only made it more confusing), and I thought that was pretty dumb.

Angel meanwhile, I really enjoy. If we're talking "best comics ever", "After the Fall" is on my list. It's excellent. The art is outstanding, the story is incredibly well plotted, it flows and everything makes sense. Everything falls into place by the end. I'm not all the way through S8 yet, so I can't fully comment, but a big, BIG complaint I have is that the whole Twilight concept isn't laid out very clearly. I should go back and read it straight through, but right now, just reading the new library editions when they come out, it's confusing. Angel feels like Angel. The way the characters interact, the way they talk, the way they solve problems, the way they fight. It really does feel to me like S6 of the series. Buffy feels totally different.

 

[Mischlings]

Angel meanwhile, I really enjoy. If we're talking "best comics ever", "After the Fall" is on my list. It's excellent. The art is outstanding, the story is incredibly well plotted, it flows and everything makes sense. Everything falls into place by the end. I'm not all the way through S8 yet, so I can't fully comment, but a big, BIG complaint I have is that the whole Twilight concept isn't laid out very clearly. I should go back and read it straight through, but right now, just reading the new library editions when they come out, it's confusing. Angel feels like Angel. The way the characters interact, the way they talk, the way they solve problems, the way they fight. It really does feel to me like S6 of the series. Buffy feels totally different.

I won't go that far with After The Fall, but it is pretty good. I really want to know your reactions to Angel & Faith, though it sounds like it'll be a little while before you get to that point.

As for the comic continuations in general, I like them. I enjoyed reading all of them, even if they weren't all that great. I think Angel & Faith is easily the best of them, with the best characterization and tightest plotting - the main Buffy line seems to be too large for its own good, while Angel & Faith is a much smaller story. Those are my slightly scattered thoughts about it that I don't have time to edit and make more clear.

 

[Ianigsy]

I bought the first few when they came out but didn't last very long- I think it brought home to me that one of the things I really appreciated was the cast and their interaction. Just reading a story and looking at static pictures really isn't the same.

 

[Kean]

Until recently the Buffy comics were the only comics, of any kind, that I had read. I had nothing to compare them to and all I could go on was if they felt true to the characters. And I think, apart from some shinning moments, they ultimately don't.

I recognise they are official canon but quite frankly so are seasons 6 and 7 and I'd quite happily air lock that shite if given the chance ( SO SAY WE ALL 😛). ATF issues 1-16 are the best of the bunch, the start of S8 was very promising, Angel & Faith is often very good, Buffy S9 is dull and pointless and the end half of S8 makes me want to gauge my eyes out. That's how I view it. I acknowledge its legitimacy as canon, and continue to follow it because of that, but doesn't change the fact that I think they are bad, often awful. There's a lot of reasons for that but ultimately it comes down to the question of "Would this have happened on the shows?", my answer is nearly always "No."

Since picking up other comics I've seen what good comics are capable of and I think that is why the Buffy comic is just not a satisfying fan experience. The story isn't there. Simple as that. I read the entirety of Y: The Last Man in about 12 hours, simply because I couldn't put it down. I think it is one of the best pieces of fiction of the last 20 years. In saying that, I don't have favourite characters from Y. While my favourite fictional characters, ever, are Buffy and Angel. For that reason I'll follow where canon takes them, but they aren't being serviced with good stories and I think that is what is paramount.

 

[Robb Stark]

I won't go that far with After The Fall, but it is pretty good. I really want to know your reactions to Angel & Faith, though it sounds like it'll be a little while before you get to that point.

I've heard good things about it so it's something I'm looking forward to reading.

I should clarify. "After the Fall" is one of my favorite contained stories, but past that, I wouldn't say the Angel books are my favorite comics ever. If you take just about anything from Ed Brubaker's Captain America run, or Geoff Johns' Green Lantern series, they're far, far better. I can rattle off a number of stories from those two (which probably qualify as my two favorite continuing books ever. Even if you've never read Cap, which I hadn't when I started, give it a shot. I couldn't put it down. The best written comic I've ever seen, hands down, and the art is incredible) and Batman that I prefer.

 

[The Ferg]

My main problem is that outside of the dialogue from time to time, it just doesn't...feel like Buffy. I know that's kind of vague, but the plots seemed so out there that it didn't even really resemble the show. I suppose in certain ways that's fine, but it hasn't captured me the same way the show has. I just read the arc where Dawn is turned into a doll by some crazy Japetto (who wasn't explained at all, which only made it more confusing), and I thought that was pretty dumb.

I feel like I'm definitely in the minority here, but I enjoy the slight changes that come with switching mediums. I like how it's a different experience than the show, but you still get that Buffy spark, in the same way that S6 was different than S5. Then again, I actually like S6/7.
Also, Geppetto didn't make Dawn into a doll, it was the third transformation from the spell that the Thricewise but on her.

Angel meanwhile, I really enjoy. If we're talking "best comics ever", "After the Fall" is on my list. It's excellent. The art is outstanding, the story is incredibly well plotted, it flows and everything makes sense. Everything falls into place by the end.

Yes, yes, and YES! I feel the exact same way. Did you like any of the other IDW Angel stuff? I'm really into all of Lynch's stuff and I thought Only Human and Illyria were pretty good as well.

While my favourite fictional characters, ever, are Buffy and Angel. For that reason I'll follow where canon takes them

Yea, this is exactly how I feel...

 

[Robb Stark]

Yes, yes, and YES! I feel the exact same way. Did you like any of the other IDW Angel stuff? I'm really into all of Lynch's stuff and I thought Only Human and Illyria were pretty good as well.

I've bought the entire Angel run, and I'm slowly making my way through it. I've read "Aftermath" and "Spike: After the Fall", which are both IDW, and I thought they were both good. The were-jaguars or whatever weren't really my thing but I liked the art. It wasn't "After the Fall" quality, but it was still good. I thought the story towards the end which repeats the "Halloween" S2 episode from BTVS was hilarious.

I'm about to start "Last Angel in Hell".

 

[Robb Stark]

Yes, yes, and YES! I feel the exact same way. Did you like any of the other IDW Angel stuff? I'm really into all of Lynch's stuff and I thought Only Human and Illyria were pretty good as well.

I'm two issues into the "Immortality for Dummies" arc and so far it's brilliant. Really, really fun story. Connor is awesome, the art is fantastic and I really liked that they tied up the plot hole of why Willow and other witches can't just re-ensoul every vampire, because that had always made me wonder.

 

[Spuffyy]

I started receiving S8 comics for Christmas and eventually I'll get them all. Will I ever actually read them though? Eh, probably not. I really don't get into actual comics/comic books but I love to have them for the sake of having them. Plus, I'm with those who feel that BtVS is the show and the show is over.

 

[dexeded]

I don't know about ATF, but I hated S8. The art was bad. Characters were just off--Buffy robs a bank? Really? I realise you only said 1-20 were good, but I just have to mention the spacefrak, because... well, it's self-explanatory, really. Twilight storyline was stupid, birthing of the universe etc. I did like some storylines--Faith, the Buffy-Fray crossover...
I like the Spike comics. The art is much better, and the characterisation and the storyline. Maybe because it's smaller--one of the S8 problems was that it was on such a global scale and didn't get me that invested.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

I *loved* the first half of season 8... up through the end of the Fray storyline, I thought it was as good as anything the TV show ever did.

In the second half of season 8, things started to slide. There were months at a time when nothing significant really seemed to happen; the art often looked rushed, and the Twilight storyline didn't make much sense. Then we got the SpaceFrak, which replaced the bathroom scene from "Seeing Red" as my least favorite moment in the history of BtVS.

Season 9, as a whole, I've liked better than the second half of season 8, but not as well as the first half. The Angel & Faith comic is excellent. I've enjoyed the Willow miniseries a lot. The main Buffy comic has been hit-and-miss and hasn't really felt like a Whedon story, but things seem to be picking up right now. The Spike miniseries was pretty forgettable.

As for the IDW comics, I liked the stuff Brian Lynch wrote, but don't really care much for the rest.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

There was a precedence set for the Twilight story in Buffy Season 6.

After they bring Buffy back, they create a demon because they asked the "universe for a big gift", and the demon offset that.

So the idea of the universe responding to events it's set up in the show, and followed through in the Twilight story with the universe responding to the massive surge in good guys.

 

[Kurai]

From what I've read of the comics, I quite like them. Yes, they're canon, but I would say they're just an extension of the series for those interested to see what happens after the end of Season 7, like the Star Wars Expanded Universe tells the stories of what happens post Return of the Jedi. Sure, they aren't written by Lucas, but they're considered Canon.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

So the idea of the universe responding to events it's set up in the show, and followed through in the Twilight story with the universe responding to the massive surge in good guys.

But before "Chosen," the situation was one Slayer vs. thousands of vampires and demons. That hardly seems like a fair balance.

Anyway, it's not the logic behind the Twilight event that bothers me so much as Angel's choices, his behavior as Twilight, and his unquestioning response to "prophecies" and "visions." By this time in his evolution, he should have learned to make more of himself than just an obedient puppet of prophecy.

 

[Kean]

By this time in his evolution, he should have learned to make more of himself than just an obedient puppet of prophecy.

This is why I find the whole thing so frustrating: he had realised that. He'd realised it in S5 of his own show. Before that, even. I mean, isn't that what NFA was all about? Tossing prophecy and destiny out the window and just doing good work because all that matters is what we do? He surely knew it ATF. There is literally no satisfying way to reconcile the Angel of ATF with the Angel of S8.

 

[The Ferg]

Hey! I gotta break this post down. You pretty much mirrored my opinions.. except one thing.

I *loved* the first half of season 8... up through the end of the Fray storyline, I thought it was as good as anything the TV show ever did.

.
Exactly. If BtVS would've stayed on "the right path," as they say, S8 seriously could've rivaled the show. With that being said, I actually liked the second half. P&P was.. not good. But it did show some new status quo's, including the ending of Dawn's dumb Thricewise story (started off cool, became dumb eventually imo). Retreat/Twilight/Last Gleaming were all good imo. Don't get me wrong.. they definitely have some issues, but they're good overall I think..

In the second half of season 8, things started to slide. There were months at a time when nothing significant really seemed to happen; the art often looked rushed, and the Twilight storyline didn't make much sense. Then we got the SpaceFrak, which replaced the bathroom scene from "Seeing Red" as my least favorite moment in the history of BtVS.

I actually enjoyed the Twilight storyline. It reach some pretty grand sci-fi heights, and that's cool with me. Buffy is better as a smaller story, with a few main characters, but I don't think it was necessarily a bad choice. I think it really explained Buffy and Angel's soulmate-ness too. It never really made sense to me how head-over-heals they were for eachother, I just accepted it. In S8 it explained that they weren't destined to bring about a new plane of existence, they were simply the best of their respective "species" (umm.. can't think of a better word here).

And I feel really bad about not knowing this but... what's a spacefrak? Can I assume it means "Them F*****g (plus The True History of the Universe)"? If so I completely disagree. I thought the, ahem, f****** was cool. In order to birth an entire reality they had to have heavenly sex. According to Whedon/Buffyverse rules, that totally makes sense.

Season 9, as a whole, I've liked better than the second half of season 8, but not as well as the first half. The Angel & Faith comic is excellent. I've enjoyed the Willow miniseries a lot. The main Buffy comic has been hit-and-miss and hasn't really felt like a Whedon story, but things seem to be picking up right now. The Spike miniseries was pretty forgettable.

Just getting into a reread of S9 so I can't say anything there, but I agree that A&F is excellent and Spike is forgettable. Haven't read Willow yet, but I'm really excited. It's cool how she started in S9, then went to A&F, then went to her own series. I'm really excited to see how everything's going to collide.

As for the IDW comics, I liked the stuff Brian Lynch wrote, but don't really care much for the rest.

Exactly. There's a few non-Lynch things I like (Only Human, Illyria, Yearbook), but yea Lynch is like a Whedon-mastermind. It would've been SO cool if DH would've hired him for another Spike series.

But before "Chosen," the situation was one Slayer vs. thousands of vampires and demons. That hardly seems like a fair balance.

Giles brings up the "But 1 Slayer vs. millions of Vamps, that's not fair" confusion. All of the greatest battles aren't fair. :/ Sure, Twilight's a little silly, but it makes sense, in a Whedon kind of way.

Anyway, it's not the logic behind the Twilight event that bothers me so much as Angel's choices, his behavior as Twilight, and his unquestioning response to "prophecies" and "visions." By this time in his evolution, he should have learned to make more of himself than just an obedient puppet of prophecy.

Ok, yea, exactly. This bother me too. It can even be argued (not very well) that AS5 Angel would be a "puppet," but there's no way AtF Angel would have stood for that. That being said, as a Buffyverse fan I can live with it, because it made for pretty good conflict and even better fallout. As an IDW/Spike/Lynch/AtF fan this makes me wanna stab Scott Allie and Joss Whedon in the nose. The it just comes down to... Whedon > all. So whatever, all's reconciled with me. 🙂

 

[AndrewCrossett]

Taken as a whole, I thought season 8 was good. I bought all the issues, all the paperbacks, and now I'm buying the hardcover Library Editions too. I was just disappointed that it didn't keep all the momentum it built up in the first half.