How Is It All Buffy's Fault?

[white avenger]

This has been mentioned in several threads, but it's never really been the main topic for a thread, as far as I know.

So, how is everything that has happened in Season 9 Buffy's fault. Granted, she robbed a Swiss bank vault of a bunch of what was almost certainly Nazi war plunder, next to impossible to restore to its rightful owners anyhow, but she did it for that most used excuse in the entire Buffyverse, the "Greater Good." How in the world does that make her responsible for what Angel did while acting as Twilight's minion? Angel walked into his deal with Twilight of his own free will, eyes wide open, knowing full well that his actions would cause hundreds, if not thousands of Slayers, military personnel, and no doubt quite a few innocent bystanders, to lose their lives. Whether or not his actions actually averted any sort of apocalyptic trouble is open for speculation, but, regardless, is in no way Buffy's fault, (unless, of course we go all the way back to Season 2, when Buffy couldn't stake Angel when she first knew that he had lost his soul. If she'd done that, this discussion wouldn't be happening now. Fine by me, but Miss K and her Bangel Brigade would rise up and destroy us all if I were to seriously mention such a thing.)

Beyond that, though Buffy's behavior during this season hasn't been perfect, I can't see any evidence that points to her being responsible for everything that's happened during the season,

 

[Skanky Vamp]

It was Buffy's fault because she created, fueled and financed the Slayer Army which disrupted the natural ebb and flow of the universe. Hence, Twilight had to be summoned to create a new universe based on balance and order which she disrupted.

 

[The Unspoken]

It was Buffy's fault because she created, fueled and financed the Slayer Army which disrupted the natural ebb and flow of the universe. Hence, Twilight had to be summoned to create a new universe based on balance and order which she disrupted.

Yeah, but she never set out to commit genocide. Activating the Potentials was irresponsible at best (or worst, in this case), but certainly not malicious. Even after she did that, (Tw)Angel's actions were required to bring about the hot tranny mess that is season 8.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Yeah, but she never set out to commit genocide

Never said she did, but she was responsible for it. I wasnt talking about activating them, I was talking about rounding all of them up into an army. At the end of Chosen, she had what, maybe 5? What she is responsible for was tracking down all the rest and putting everything into motion.

 

[citiegal17]

It was Buffy's fault because she created, fueled and financed the Slayer Army which disrupted the natural ebb and flow of the universe. Hence, Twilight had to be summoned to create a new universe based on balance and order which she disrupted.

IF Buffy hadn't made the slayer army the First would destroy the slayer line and take over the entire world. Twilight wasn't summoned, it brought itself into the world, played Angel who played its bitch murdered hundreds of people, and helped it to give birth itself along with Buffy. Buffy is responsible for the way she didn't deal with Angel being Twilight, and helping Twilight to give birth to itself with the space sex, she is responsible for the demons getting into the world, and making it necessary to destroy the seed. However, Angel deserves way more blame for what happened then Buffy, he put events in motion so Twilight could give birth to itself, he abused and manipulated Buffy who I have more sympathy for than him, its Angel own fault for playing Twilight's bitch throughout the season. The only reason Twilight could possess him is he willingly been playing its bitch all season long.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

IF Buffy hadn't made the slayer army the First would destroy the slayer line and take over the entire world.

No,ACTIVATING the slayers to stop the first is a world of difference than making a slayer army as she did in the subsequent season.

 

[white avenger]

No,ACTIVATING the slayers to stop the first is a world of difference than making a slayer army as she did in the subsequent season.

But if you're going to go back that far, wouldn't it be more accurate to blame Willow, Tara, Xander, and Anya, since they resurrected Buffy, which caused the cosmic imbalance that allowed the First Evil to launch its plan to destroy the world. Go back even further than that, and resuscitating Buffy in Season 2 was also a factor, so Angel and Xander would also have to share in the guilt, because, except for that, there never would have been two Slayers in the world simultaneously. Just how far back do we go in assigning blame here?

Buffy made some mistakes this season, certainly, as well as the season before, and all the way back to "Welcome To The Hellmouth," but her right choices have always far outweighed her wrong choices, and I don't see any evidence that that has changed in the slightest.

Besides, we all know who REALLY caused all the trouble this season, don't we?

 

[prophecygrrl]

No,ACTIVATING the slayers to stop the first is a world of difference than making a slayer army as she did in the subsequent season.

But what else could she do with all the activated slayers? Organizing them seems like the only responsible thing to do. 😕

 

[LadyLavinia]

It was Buffy's fault because she created, fueled and financed the Slayer Army which disrupted the natural ebb and flow of the universe.

Let me get this straight. One Slayer at a time was part of the natural ebb and flow of the universe? Oh please! I will bet you donuts for dollars that the reason that the shamans' spell only limited to one Slayer at a time was for them and later, the Watchers Council, to maintain control of the Slayer. One of the reasons the shamans chose a young woman in the first place was because they believed she could be easily controlled, due to her gender.

The creation of the Slayer line, in my opinion, was an act of psychic rape, gender discrimination and perversity. Those shamans chose a young female as their soldier, because they were too afraid to fight demons themselves . . . and they wanted a weapon that they believe could be easily controlled. There was nothing "natural" about it - whether one Slayer existed or many.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

But if you're going to go back that far

I went back no further than you. You said how were the events in season 8 all Buffy's fault and I gave the answer which did not go further back than season 8. When she created the slayer army.

What do you think the ramifications of that would be? suddenly another army, potentially more powerful than the US army, operating on US soil? It is kind of like shining a big spotlight, look at me, look at me!

Do you think the US military would have noticed if it were just a group of 5 people or so? But when the comics opened with "we are now an army of thousands" or whatever it said it brought everything to attention and meant no longer operating in secrecy.

If the military would never have gotten involved, to counteract the slayer army, Twilight would have played a lesser role, as much of the 'battle' consisted of military forces. You remove the military you remove most of the 'atrocities' that Twilight did.

---------- Post added at 05:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:07 AM ----------

But what else could she do with all the activated slayers? Organizing them seems like the only responsible thing to do. 😕

It was the 'responsible' thing to do, but does that always mean it was the right thing to do? There are consequences which comes with responsibility, Twilight could have easily been a consequence.

---------- Post added at 05:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:15 AM ----------

The creation of the Slayer line, in my opinion, was an act of psychic rape

So did Buffy psychically rape all those thousand of girls which she suddenly transformed into killing machines?

 

[The Unspoken]

So did Buffy psychically rape all those thousand of girls which she suddenly transformed into killing machines?

The creation of the first Slayer was a one-time incident. Slayers called after that didn't experience the ordeal that the first Slayer did.

Also, by activating ALL the Slayers, Buffy is redefining the concept of what it is to be a Slayer - and getting rid of the negative aspects heretofore connected with it.

It was the 'responsible' thing to do, but does that always mean it was the right thing to do? There are consequences which comes with responsibility, Twilight could have easily been a consequence.

Twilight was something Angel consented to - Buffy did no such thing. There's a reason why there's a harsher punishment for crimes committed with intent.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Buffy is redefining the concept of what it is to be a Slayer.

Thats what I meant by altering the ebb and flow of things. She redefined one thing, the 'universe' redefined something else. Hey, dont ask me, WA just asked a question and no one answered it for several hours so I thought I would post a possible answer. I think the whole thing is screwy from 7 on anyway.

---------- Post added at 06:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:05 AM ----------

Twilight was something Angel consented to - Buffy did no such thing. There's a reason why there's a harsher punishment for crimes committed with intent.

But Buffy surely consented to forming the slayer army? She had to send events in motion to round them all up and form their base. Unless you think that was Giles doing? Sadly, we were not privy to the formation and how they went about doing it as that was in the 'missing' time between 7 & 8.

 

[white avenger]

But Buffy surely consented to forming the slayer army? She had to send events in motion to round them all up and form their base. Unless you think that was Giles doing? Sadly, we were not privy to the formation and how they went about doing it as that was in the 'missing' time between 7 & 8.

I do think that Giles was a major factor in initiating the formation of the Slayer army as a formal force, simply because it would be the most expedient way of organizing and directing all of those understandably disoriented girls. Also, it might be said that Willow should share inthe blame for not making the activation spell selective, limiting its effects to only the girls in the immediate vicinity of Sunnydale (then again, maybe doing so was impossible, given the limited preparation time.

But as far as I could see over the events of the existing 39 issues, Buffy hasn't done anything to make me believe that all, if indeed any, of the chaos, death, and destruction that we've seen is her fault, or something that she deserved to be punished for.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I do think that Giles was a major factor in initiating the formation of the Slayer army as a formal force,

But I would have thought he would have been more in command.. I never got the feeling he was, which is why I never thought Giles.

Buffy hasn't done anything to make me believe that all, if indeed any, of the chaos, death, and destruction that we've seen is her fault, or something that she deserved to be punished for.

Of course she is to blame, many are to blame.. but I never said she needed to be punished. The only person that needed to be punished got his neck snapped, and I suppose that was punishment enough.

 

[frankie]

The idea to pass the power on to other women was Buffy's but the formation of the army I would have thought was a mutual decision between the group.
WILLOW: We changed the world. I can feel them, Buffy. All over. Slayers are awakening everywhere. DAWN: We'll have to find them. WILLOW: We will. ...
Willow was the link to finding the girls, I highly doubt Buffy forced her to do it, heck, Will even said she wanted to find them. And I never interpreted Buffy's smile at the end of Chosen as " I'm going to make a big old army". I always thought it was the scoobies continuing the mission of fighting evil, just on a world scale, and of course Buffy would be the leader, because she's the head honcho slayer 😀 - who better to lead an army of slayers. The blame will always lie with the leader but I think they all played a part in making the slayers a public thing, thus leading to military and governments taking notice.
I agree with Sco though, "I think the whole thing is screwy from 7 on anyway."

 

[racheltng]

Guys, clearly, it's Joss's fault.

 

[Daniel Osbourne]

It's not Buffy's fault at all. In my opinion, you can only fault someone for something when they knew their actions would have negative consequences and/or were acting irresponsibly. Buffy was doing neither thing when she had the potentials activated. It was the only way to stop the First's army and to ensure that the girls would be able to defend themselves. And as has been said, it also got rid of the icky baggage that the Shadow Men's original spell entailed, because they wanted control over the First Slayer.

Why on Earth should it be Buffy's fault if the universe decides that the balance has been upset and Angel decides under his own free will to be the universe's lap dog? She didn't want those things to happen or force them to occur. They happened because the universe sucks.

 

[SpaceLord]

Well all I can say is that it's neither Spikes or Faiths fault but I'm sure in S9 they will end up with the blame anyway 😛

 

[citiegal17]

Well all I can say is that it's neither Spikes or Faiths fault but I'm sure in S9 they will end up with the blame anyway 😛

I'm not sure how that could happen, those two don't really have reasoon to be blamed. If anything they have acted more responsible than either Buffy or Angel this season who are responsible. I so hope Buffy grows a pair when it comes to Angel, and tells him to take a permenant hike, and if he ever dears harm another human being again she will stake him soul or no soul, but Buffy will never do that, instead she'll regress like she did this season, and be a Bella clone.

 

[white avenger]

I so hope Buffy grows a pair when it comes to Angel, and tells him to take a permenant hike, and if he ever dears harm another human being again she will stake him soul or no soul, but Buffy will never do that, instead she'll regress like she did this season, and be a Bella clone.

Yeah, as mad as it makes me in this case, I have no doubt that Buffy is going to protect, defend, and support Angel in Season 9, despite everything that he's done. That's just what she does. When someone who she loves is in trouble, she's there for them. She did it for Spike in Season 7, for Angel when he came back from hell in Season 3, and to a lesser degree, Dawn in Season 5 and Willow in Season 6. It's not that Willow, Spike, or Angel can do no wrong in Buffy's eyes, it's simply that they can do no wrong THAT BUFFY CAN'T FORGIVE. But I really think that we're going to see her love, loyalty, and support stretched to its limits with Angel next season, and possibly on past the breaking point. I also think that her support of Angel is going to cost her more than she has ever had to pay before in regards to her friendship with Xander and Willow.