How many true friends do you think Angel had?

[Robb Stark]

From the two series and After the Fall (which happens to be, very conveniently, exactly where I've gotten too in the Angel comics), how many true "friends" do you think Angel had? I'm not talking love interests really, so Buffy might not qualify (although Cordy probably does).

I think Angel had love interests, and he had people he really cared about (like Fred or Lorne), but I think his only really true "friends" were Doyle, Wesley and, later on, Cordy. I wouldn't have said Wes (he was my coin-flip pick) before reading the comics, where I thought it was pretty clear that they're friends.

What do you guys think?

 

[ladydorotea]

Doyle, Cordelia, Wesley, Fred, Gunn and Lorne. Oh, and Faith of course.

 

[Kairos]

Doyle, Cordelia, Wesley, Fred, Gunn, Lorne, Faith, and...Spike! Yeah, I wouldn't swear to it in a court of law, but I think that at the end of the day there was something real behind the Angel/Spike relationship.

I also think Angel had major potential for friendships with Willow, Oz, and Giles, if only he'd had more time around them.

Oh, and his dragon Cordelia, of course. 🙂

Whistler's status as friend is on hold.

 

[RogueDemonHunter]

I would say: Doyle, Cordelia, Wesley, Fred, Gunn, Lorne, Faith, Spike, and by the end of the episode "Epiphany", I'd say Kate too.

 

[white avenger]

I don't think that anyone in Sunnydale could be considered as actually being Angel's friend. Buffy was his lover, but by her own admission, she couldn't see hin in any other way than that. On his own show, Cordy, Fred, possibly Wes, and without any doubt, Faith. He was on more or less friendly terms with Gunn and Doyle, but that was more the "comrades in arms" type relationship than true friendship. There was trust, but little in the way of actual affection. The problem is that Angel had no idea what it took to be a friend, never having had one during the couple of centuries that he was a vampire, and quite likely very few, if any, when he was human. There were people with whom he worked, but it actually took Cordy to teach him what true friendship was.

 

[BuffyElevated]

I don't think that anyone in Sunnydale could be considered as actually being Angel's friend. Buffy was his lover, but by her own admission, she couldn't see hin in any other way than that. On his own show, Cordy, Fred, possibly Wes, and without any doubt, Faith. He was on more or less friendly terms with Gunn and Doyle, but that was more the "comrades in arms" type relationship than true friendship. There was trust, but little in the way of actual affection. The problem is that Angel had no idea what it took to be a friend, never having had one during the couple of centuries that he was a vampire, and quite likely very few, if any, when he was human. There were people with whom he worked, but it actually took Cordy to teach him what true friendship was.

Very well said. 🙂 I definitely agree with you. I don't think anyone in Sunnydale could be considered Angel's friend. It was really sad back in Season 1 when Buffy asked him if he knew what a friend was and Angel said nothing. 🙁

 

[Jodast]

Yep Sunnydale is out. It's interesting to note also that the only people that seem to actually like Angel are the people to whom he has given a purpose. Doyle, Fred, Cordy and Faith. Admittedly it is because he has gone above and beyond the call of duty to help or save them at various points, but no-one actually seems to like Angel because he's a good dude.

 

[janas]

Buffy 🙂

The hands represent friendship, the crown represents loyalty... and the heart... Well, you know...
for as I see it, she was also her best friend

at Los Angeles Doyle e Fred (the only two that have never betrayed Angel)

..sure, also Wesley, Lorne, Gunn and Cordelia were his friends (in the season two certainly were a wonderful team), but Wes and Cordy have made choices terribly silly, and this does not qualify them as best friends.

 

[dexeded]

Buffy 🙂

The hands represent friendship, the crown represents loyalty... and the heart... Well, you know...
for as I see it, she was also her best friend

Maybe in the innocence of S2? But later on: "We're not friends. We never were."

 

[janas]

Maybe in the innocence of S2? But later on: "We're not friends. We never were."

I think that phrase (as well as the famous phrase of Spike "You're *not* friends. You'll never be friends.." indicates that they will never be just friends (in the Platonic sense). Depends on the meaning we give to the word love. For me, that feeling is all-inclusive and the friendship, implicitly, is a component of it.

 

[whitewolf]

Yep Sunnydale is out. It's interesting to note also that the only people that seem to actually like Angel are the people to whom he has given a purpose. Doyle, Fred, Cordy and Faith. Admittedly it is because he has gone above and beyond the call of duty to help or save them at various points, but no-one actually seems to like Angel because he's a good dude.

Honestly as a person Angel doesn't seem all that likable. He is extremely moody and broody. He doesn't seem like the type of person you could be friends with because his brooding/moody nature makes it hard to deal with him. I get the feeling Angel does not like himself very much, so not very many people like Angel. The best comparison I can think of is Bruce Wayne. Bruce may be a hero, he may be a good man, he may have allies, but how many friends does he have? His brooding, obsessive nature drives away a lot of people. Dick is probably the closest he has to a friend and even then it seems strained.

Angel is a lot like Bruce. He has a lot of allies, but I question if he has many friends. Cordy, Faith, and Doyle are all I can think of really. Gunn was very adamant that Angel was an ally, but not a friend. Wess seems to like him okay, but they are more of work acquaintances than friends. Buffy,once again similar to Bruce, can't be anything but his girlfriend. They can't be friends. I don't feel like Xander ever really forgave Angel for his actions as Angelus. Giles is in the same boat as Xander and for good reason. Willow is probably the closest of the Scobies to being his friend since she travels to L.A. to deliver the news of Buffy's death, but still they get along, but don't seem like friends.

 

[SlayerFest]

Honestly as a person Angel doesn't seem all that likable. He is extremely moody and broody. He doesn't seem like the type of person you could be friends with because his brooding/moody nature makes it hard to deal with him. I get the feeling Angel does not like himself very much, so not very many people like Angel. The best comparison I can think of is Bruce Wayne. Bruce may be a hero, he may be a good man, he may have allies, but how many friends does he have? His brooding, obsessive nature drives away a lot of people. Dick is probably the closest he has to a friend and even then it seems strained.

Angel is a lot like Bruce. He has a lot of allies, but I question if he has many friends. Cordy, Faith, and Doyle are all I can think of really. Gunn was very adamant that Angel was an ally, but not a friend. Wess seems to like him okay, but they are more of work acquaintances than friends. Buffy,once again similar to Bruce, can't be anything but his girlfriend. They can't be friends. I don't feel like Xander ever really forgave Angel for his actions as Angelus. Giles is in the same boat as Xander and for good reason. Willow is probably the closest of the Scobies to being his friend since she travels to L.A. to deliver the news of Buffy's death, but still they get along, but don't seem like friends.

I find Angel pretty humorous at times. He gets less broody as the show progresses. On Buffy, yeah I couldn't imagine being friends with someone like that...he annoyed the crap out of me on that show 9 times out of 10...however, he seems like someone I could hang out with on AtS. Anyone who utters these words: "Charlton Heston. Double Feature! At the Nu-art. Soylent Green and The Omega Man." is almost guaranteed to become my bff.

 

[Robb Stark]

Honestly as a person Angel doesn't seem all that likable. He is extremely moody and broody. He doesn't seem like the type of person you could be friends with because his brooding/moody nature makes it hard to deal with him. I get the feeling Angel does not like himself very much, so not very many people like Angel. The best comparison I can think of is Bruce Wayne. Bruce may be a hero, he may be a good man, he may have allies, but how many friends does he have? His brooding, obsessive nature drives away a lot of people. Dick is probably the closest he has to a friend and even then it seems strained.

Angel is a lot like Bruce. He has a lot of allies, but I question if he has many friends. Cordy, Faith, and Doyle are all I can think of really. Gunn was very adamant that Angel was an ally, but not a friend. Wess seems to like him okay, but they are more of work acquaintances than friends. Buffy,once again similar to Bruce, can't be anything but his girlfriend. They can't be friends. I don't feel like Xander ever really forgave Angel for his actions as Angelus. Giles is in the same boat as Xander and for good reason. Willow is probably the closest of the Scobies to being his friend since she travels to L.A. to deliver the news of Buffy's death, but still they get along, but don't seem like friends.

Oh, I don't know. His bloodiness level, with a few exceptions, goes down quite a bit as the series moves along. I mean, when you look at him in S5 of AtS, he's not socially even close to the way he was on Buffy, or even in S1 of his own series. Not even close really. I mean, he retains the same core characters traits, but socially I think he develops as much as any other character. I wouldn't call him unlikable at all (although, I'm a massive Angel fan).

As for the comparison to Bruce Wayne, I think it fits at the beginning of S1. Now, I'm the biggest Batman fan you'll ever find (you should see the hardcover library I've put together), and in the last 23 years or so of modern Batman continuity, I can say that he has exactly one real, true friend, and that's Superman. Him and Clark are friends (The dynamic they develop being the two legends of the DCU is pretty awesome). Dick Grayson, Tim Wayne and Damian are his kids, not his friends. Wonder Woman, Zatanna and Catwoman are his love interests (kind of like Angel/Buffy), not really friends. Commissioner Gordon, that's a tough one. I think they're friends in a way, but more true allies. Batman has offered to reveal himself, but Gordon has always turned him down (although they make it pretty clear that Gordon knows Bruce Wayne is Batman). The other Justice League members are more allies. Superman is the only real "friend" Batman has. It's interesting, because DC has built Dick Grayson into one of their central characters who every other hero loves.

(Sorry, I love a chance to talk some Batman)

 

[whitewolf]

[MENTION=11975]Always Bangel[/MENTION] it's fine I love to talk Batman too, but you did leave someone out. Where does Alfred fall? I see him more as a father figure.

As to Angel, he is becoming less broody as the show develops, but still I get the feeling he has never forgiven himself for his past and I think that makes it hard for others to like him because they sense he isn't at peace with himself.

 

[iShower4free]

Angel will never forgive himself but his brooding nature definitely thins in AtS. He begins to open up specially for Cordy thanks to Lornes pushes. During BtVS I think he eventually grew to think of the original Scoobies as friends but when he became Angelus that burned some bridges. Like in the episode where alternate dimension vampire Willow was there he seemed genuinely upset that she was dead. That could just have been that he felt bad for Buffy losing someone. Him and Buffy are a complicating one. They were/ are the loves of each others lives. I have always thought that friendship came with love. I also agree that they cant just be friends, its too complicated. So I think he has been friends with quite a few people but I think the list would be: Cordy, Faith, Doyle, Wesley and Gunn (although they have a very strained relationship), Fred (bless her soul 🙁), Lorne, Willow, and ill add Buffy because im a believer 😀