How patriotic are you?

I

itsxpaperdoll

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Just wondering^^
Because, you see, I was reading some articles for my exam on monday (Ieeks!) about nationalism and antion building in the 19th century. One guy said that nationalism is natural and everyone is in some way patriotic, whether via upbringing, influence from society etc. It made me think, about myself. I like to think that in I am in no way particulary pro-Holland. During World Championships, Olympic Games etc, I support the team/athlete with the funniest name, best looks or something like that. I am proud of some bits of Dutch society, like our soft-drugs policy (Duh. And because it actually works) and I will always be Dutch, simply because it is my mother tongue and so on. I want to die here, simply because apparantly, when the dementia kicks in, one of the first things you lose is the ability to speak foreign languages. But I don't feel anything like "wow! we should protect and stimulate our national identity" I am not proud of my country. Actually, all in all, it's not all that good.
I am however, to a certain extent, proud of my Western, European and post-Enlightenment heritage, and I don't think I'd ever move to a country that is really un-European (the only countries I can think of right now are places like, China, North Korea, Mongolia and Afghanistan, countries you wouldn't want to live in anyway).
How proud are you of your country & corresponding history and heritage? Would you define yourself as patriotic, or just aware of stuff? Most of us are from profoundly Western(ised) countries: Do you think Western ideals are indeed (as certain Presidents tell us) the best one? Or the worst, apart from all others that have been (and are being) advocated from time to time, all over the world (freely (mis)quoting a certain PM)? What are your views on nationalism (as in even slightly more militant than regular, more or less healthy, patriotism?
Bring it on! I'm curious ^^
 
C
Charlie Kaur
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While I am glad to live in a Western society (for freedom of opinion, speech and religion, if nothing else... though definitely not for their obsession with material belongings), I could hardly care less which side or another I'm born on regarding some line drawn on a map. Actually, displays of patriotism/nationalism always make me feel uneasy - well, but then again, my home country has a very dark history regarding this, doesn't it? 🙁
 
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Charlie Kaur
[No message]
I'm glad I live in the U.S. and all, but I wouldn't consider myself patriotic. I wouldn't mind living in another country, really...I think patriotism hurts more than it helps because you have this sense of pride about the place you live just because you live there and most super patriotic people I know are completely blind to all the failings of our country. Not to mention they think in the war we're the "good guys" just because we're America, and don't stop to think about how we're interfering with the lives of other people who don't want our help.

But, yeah that pretty much sums up my views.
 
C
Charlie Kaur
[No message]
I find nationalism to be one of the dullest qualities in a person, that's how I knew I wouldn't find many nationalists in this thread 🙂 I also think it's damaging and breeds narrow mindedness, but OP you are perfectly right, it's very difficult not to take vicarious pride from the achievements of your birth place - I'm Indian and I can't count how many times I've told people that Miss India is joint first for the most numbers of Miss World winners....and now I've told it to the internet everybody! I respect people that try to rise above it (I try but as you can see fail!). I feel it's mark of civilization to be able to see above such a base impulse.
 
So the thread first stated how patriotic are you but then it switched to nationalism. I am very patriotic yet not a nationalist (or that much of one)

My nationalist attitude is based more upon the principles of which my country was founded than the road my country went down. My patriotism is simple and easy for anyone to understand.

I feel most people lump the two together but of course you cannot do that- they are different ideologies. The words should never be used interchangeably.
 
C
Charlie Kaur
agree 100% but methinks much patriotism comes blind unquestioning nationalism which is where the overlap comes in,but you are totally right,I assume you're from the states...those are sound principles for anybody to be proud of.
I'm glad to be American and consider myself patriotic, but I'm not blind to the faults. Isn't part of being a good patriot questioning the direction being taken that you don't agree with? Isn't that attitude what formed America in the first place? I don't understand how anyone who thinks of themselves as patriotic could just blindly follow along with whatever's going on without ever voicing a dissenting opinion. I mean, I love America and all, but I know she's not perfect. Just like I love my kids....but there are things they think or actions they take that I don't love. Doesn't make me love them less, they're entitled to their opinions and their own lives. Well....as much of their own lives as they can have while they're still under my care, anyway.
 
B
Blair Waldorf-Bass
Thanks! And your banner is creepy!
Absolutely.

I think it was Theodore Roosevelt who said something along those lines.

And Samuel Johnson who stated "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

I'm as patriotic as the next person, but to blindly assume this country has zero faults is foolish.
 
Mh, well I'm proud to be German and I'm proud to have also an Irish heritage. However, basically I could just as well be proud of living in Belgium or whatever else. I don't really think nationality is a category on which you can be proud of anything. There are 200 or more countries on this globe and it's basically like participating in a lottery when you are born. You could have been born anywhere else, so I find nationalism or patriotism a rather empty concept just trying to be filled by some guys who want to unite people, because they thought it would be great. Of course I'm happy about German achievements, "Das Land der Dichter und Denker" and think that Germans should try to keep their heritage alive and so on, but at the same time Germans also should acknowledge parts of Germany, which are the darker parts of history. Germans should accept them, live them and try to help the world by learning from these faults. Germans today should not judged for past events.


At the same time I often wonder, don't I feel personally more attached to my home town? Well, Solingen isn't a greast city, but I do like it, but generally speaking it's also nothing really to be proud of, cause I didn't contribute in anyway into shaping Solingen into that what it is nowadays. Nevertheless I like to express my local patriotism by mocking people from the neighbouring city and stuff like that. Isn't that also nationalism, just on a smaller level? I think so, cause for me nationalism creates itself out of inventing a negative identity against something else. In the 18th and 19th century Germans against France, or maybe Solingen against Wuppertal for instance.

So I believe that for example in a couple of decades the Europeans actually will begin to feel more European than French or British or Irish. (Actually btw, as far as I remember, Great Britain has no real national identity, but is in fact proven to be basically artificial.) So yeah, maybe if we humans make contact with Aliens or stuff, we may start to bond ever closer together and identify ourselves against those creatures from outer space. Finally, for me nationalism and patriotism are just empty concepts, that cause more problems than helped really.
 
scobro said:
I feel most people lump the two together but of course you cannot do that- they are different ideologies. The words should never be used interchangeably.
Click to expand...

I am very careful not to lump them together. There are of course obvious similarities, but patriotism (or national consciousness) has existed since the human race existed. Nationalism was more or less invented around the 1800s. Whether it's liberal or conservative nationalism, the aims of it are very different form the aims of patriotism. Indeed, it has aims, whereas patriotism is more or less a point of view.
Hey, I really hope they're gonna ask questions about this on the exam ^^
 
I am proud to be American but not in a "hey-I-shove-a-flag-in-your-face-foreigner". I'm glad I was born in the US, I like most of what I've experienced of it, I don't ever wish I was another nationality yet I do know the country has faults just like every other nation. So...I'm not an ignorant patriotic or an extreme one....is there such a thing as average patriotism? Because that's probably the category I'd fall into.

I think in today's society patriotism doesn't play too much of a part in the grand scheme of things, and so by extension people have become less inclined to feel that way- especially as every nation slowly became disillusioned as regards their government. I mean I never really get into sports so I'm never like 'Go America' or whatever during international championships because I don't care either way and anything culture-related I can't really be pro-america there either since the whole point of culture is to appreciate everything. So, I guess I'm never given the opportunity to be patriotic....I'm just generally happy with my nationality.
 
I'm proud to be Scottish? But, I wouldn't say I'm proud to be British, mostly because I don't consider myself British, I'm from Scotland.

Over the years, I have noticed an almost 'racist' view from English people I have lived with.. I know not all English people think this way, but the people that do make me wish Scotland would seperate from England and float away.
 
Patriotism and Nationalism in Ireland is a very treacherous road to walk. I am extremely proud to be Irish and I find most other Irish people are proud of who they are too. You can call it whatever you will but I find because our history has been so full of oppression that there is a great pride in the struggle of our nation and that we made it through to the other side. I love the culture, the language, the music. I love the land and the people and the passion we have. Do I think Ireland is flawless? Absolutely not, I could fill a whole thread on my own about what I think is wrong with this country.

The trouble is that to call yourself a nationalist or a patriot in Ireland pretty much equates to calling yourself a terrorist. That is what makes it nationalism such a hot topic here.

One of my greatest hopes, one of my greatest dreams is that Ireland would be reunited one day through democratic means, hopefully while I am still alive. I would love for our langauge to regain it's rightfull position in our culture and be the first language of Ireland again. I'm proud to be Irish, it's a huge part of who I am and I am happy to embrace it.
 
I doubt that Ireland will ever be reunited. Ireland thrives on division. Baiscally any Irish organisation I know of has a split running through it, so naturally the island has to be devided too. However, as the peace process developed, I think Ireland will look forward to a long lasting peace. Everything should be settle by now. I just hope, that the economic crisis will reignite conflicts...
 
Skanky Vamp
Skanky Vamp
I am getting at nationalism.. what are you getting at?
I'm not even remotely patriotic. I mean, I'm semi-proud to be an American...some of the time, anyway...but I certainly don't see my nationality as an important part of my identity. I think I'd be just as happy living somewhere else.

I've always wished I had lots of pride in my country, city, school, etc. though. I always feel left out when people are all excited over a local sports team winning while I just think, "Eh, I really don't care."
 
itsxpaperdoll said:
Nationalism was more or less invented around the 1800s.
Click to expand...
Explain what you mean by that; If nationalism was more or less invented around the 1800's what do you then describe Rome and Jerusalem as?
 
Q
Queen Mum
cities? Religious/spiritual centers? What are you getting at there?
I get very patriotic when things like the Olympics come around and the rugby world cup. I'm proud to be English but i don't go shouting it form the roof tops or even know all of our national anthem but i like our country its my home and i think always will be. 🙂
 
Oh them plucky British lads at Olympic games. Yes, they are fun 😉

I tend to get very pro-German at international football matches and especially tournaments, though for some odd reason, I wasn't that happy to be German during the Euro this year, than compared to being German during the World Cup two years ago. I felt the fans in a way embarassing. I felt them ready to jump into their boots and do annoying things. The World Cup was just an awesome time 🙂
 
One thing that annoys me about the olympics is the whole UK deal. Our Olympians are not Scottish, Welsh, English, Irish, they are BRITISH.

But the English commentators just love to say things such as "another victory for England" when it is an English athlete that has won.. But as soon as it's a Scottish athlete it's "a victory for Britain"

It makes me mad.

I hate living on this backwards island.
 
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