How well do Tara's accusations stand up at the time they're made?

[Skanky Vamp]

Having therapy on screen can be difficult to portray both accurately and in a way that you'd want to watch.

Sure worked pretty well on the Sopranos.

@NotASlayer
What about Big Little Lies?
13 Reasons Why?
Mad Men?
Hannibal?

They all had multiple scenes/episodes with therapy sessions.

 

[NotASlayer]

@Skanky Vamp Hannibal, yes, I've seen one season (I've also seen some of Lucifer and all of Star Trek: TNG). It's not impossible to do by any stretch; it just takes work.

 

[garfan]

@Taake the scene showed Willow having and then losing emotional control.

The problem with therapy is that the Scoobies are in a world with the masquerade intact and they don't know where their options might be. You think the Watcher's Council in season 3 is gonna offer anyone therapy?

 

[NotASlayer]

@Taake the scene showed Willow having and then losing emotional control.

The problem with therapy is that the Scoobies are in a world with the masquerade intact and they don't know where their options might be. You think the Watcher's Council in season 3 is gonna offer anyone therapy?

Certainly, going to normals for help wouldn't work as Buffy can attest.

Post "Checkpoint" and Buffy making the Council her bitcas, it is possible they might help. There are also other options.

The Devon coven, in their treatment of Willow, gave the impression that they could help with mental healing. Of course, that's yet another way that season six's poor writing makes Giles an awful person. "Hey everyone, for longer than I've known you I've known of a group that could have helped you with matters like Xander staking Jesse and Buffy being torn out of heaven but, just like I never bothered telling Willow that magic was addictive, I never mentioned them because, really, I don't care what happens to any of you."

The masquerade is also not as strong as it might appear. It's strong in Sunnydale, but that is likely due to the Mayor influencing things for the entire existence of the town and leftovers after he died. Angel showed that a lot more people knew of the existence of the spooky side. Demons also have their own network, even if we only saw things like Caritas and Willy's - Lorne, in fact, sometimes appeared to be a bit of a therapist. Given that demons were, for want of a better word, more humanised in Angel, they may well have their own therapists. Ringing Angel and asking for advice could well have found someone.

Now, most of those don't work in season three, but there's definitely a large number of people who know about what is really going on in the world and it's certain that at least some of those would be able to help. And Giles has been tied into that world since he was a teenager, if not earlier.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Certainly, going to normals for help wouldn't work as Buffy can attest.

Yet that "normal" guidance counselor, which is akin to a therapist in context of the story, was helping Buffy and she was getting comfort from their meetings.

 

[garfan]

Certainly, going to normals for help wouldn't work as Buffy can attest.

Post "Checkpoint" and Buffy making the Council her bitcas, it is possible they might help. There are also other options.

The Devon coven, in their treatment of Willow, gave the impression that they could help with mental healing. Of course, that's yet another way that season six's poor writing makes Giles an awful person. "Hey everyone, for longer than I've known you I've known of a group that could have helped you with matters like Xander staking Jesse and Buffy being torn out of heaven but, just like I never bothered telling Willow that magic was addictive, I never mentioned them because, really, I don't care what happens to any of you."

The masquerade is also not as strong as it might appear. It's strong in Sunnydale, but that is likely due to the Mayor influencing things for the entire existence of the town and leftovers after he died. Angel showed that a lot more people knew of the existence of the spooky side. Demons also have their own network, even if we only saw things like Caritas and Willy's - Lorne, in fact, sometimes appeared to be a bit of a therapist. Given that demons were, for want of a better word, more humanised in Angel, they may well have their own therapists. Ringing Angel and asking for advice could well have found someone.

Now, most of those don't work in season three, but there's definitely a large number of people who know about what is really going on in the world and it's certain that at least some of those would be able to help. And Giles has been tied into that world since he was a teenager, if not earlier.

no, the masquerade isn't all consuming in BtVS, but it's basically big enough that you never know what people know when you meet them

And of course they spent so little time involved with AI they likely wouldn't know about his info network

Yet that "normal" guidance counselor, which is akin to a therapist in context of the story, was helping Buffy and she was getting comfort from their meetings.

she was only able to speak to him about part of her problem though

 

[NoShip]

You think the Watcher's Council in season 3 is gonna offer anyone therapy?

I thought the WC sent a psychiatrist to evaluate Faith's fitness for duty and Buffy's something (I forget what her part was). I think the evals were in Doppelgangland & one or two others?

Now, what would be done to the Slayers if either or both failed? Well, I don't think the Council's "treatment plan" would include therapy, no matter how badly both girls need it.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Buffy was written by people born in the 60s/70s. Therapy wasn’t quite the half sacrament it is today, and mental health was largely about being properly drugged.

 

[NoShip]

Buffy was written by people born in the 60s/70s. Therapy wasn’t quite the half sacrament it is today, and mental health was largely about being properly drugged.

I don't know. I grew up in L.A. and while therapy may not have been a half sacrament, it was a stop on the road to happiness for a lot of Angelenos - especially the ones with good health insurance. Also, a 'good' therapist got you well down the road to a proper drugging. 🤪

 

[thrasherpix]

I wondered how Travers would've reacted if he first stopped in to see this new Slayer to see her and Flutie in this scene:

Mr. Flutie: You were there. You saw Dr. Gregory, didn't you? ​

​

Buffy: Um, you mean yesterday in the cafeteria when we found him... ​

​

Mr. Flutie: Don't say dead! Or decapitated, or decomposing, I'd stay away from D-words altogether. But you witnessed the event, so this way, please.​

​

Buffy: Well, no, I'm gonna be late for biology... ​

​

Mr. Flutie: Extremely late! You have to see a counselor. Everyone who saw the body has to see a crisis counselor. ​

​

Buffy: But I really don't need... ​

​

Mr. Flutie: We all need help with our feelings. Otherwise we bottle them up, and before you know it, powerful laxatives are involved. I really believe if we all reach out to one another we can beat this thing. I'm always here if you need a hug, but not a real hug! Because there's no touching, this school is sensitive to wrong touching. ​

​

Buffy: But, I really, really don't... ​

​

Mr. Flutie: No, you have to talk to a counselor and start the healing. You have to heal. ​

​

Buffy: But Mr. Flutie, I... ​

​

Mr. Flutie: Heal!​

​

Travers would probably have a note made to send in Snyder, stat, before their Slayer could be anymore coddled (or worse, saying things she shouldn't...especially seeking counseling over her 18th birthday).



Though seriously, given how disposable Slayers were, I don't see them using counseling, at least beyond indoctrination. Probably a warning and a slap on the wrist for the accidental killing, with advice how to avoid that in the future (*), or at least to cover it up better (and having their own people take care of it, here's a number to call).

(* Though when Travers heard the guy was in an alley of rampaging vampires, I expect he'd find that very suspicious of the man, and even if he was an innocent, he was too stupid to live anyway, especially to touch adrenaline-soaked Slayers rather than waving or whispering to them or even leaving an anonymous note for them to find. And in this case I'd agree with him.)

 

[NotASlayer]

Given that Slayers typically only lasted a couple of years or so, I could easily see the Council not considering it worthwhile getting them counselling. However, given that Slayers typically only lasted a couple of years or so, I can see no sensible in-universe reason why the Council doesn't pay them a stipend.

Everyone else who works for the Council is paid, yet the Slayer, whose time is limited, is expected to make their own way in the world? Given the nature of Slaying, it's not like any of them are really going to end up qualified to work anything other than the most menial of jobs.

Giles: It's the end of the world Buffy.
Buffy: Sorry Giles, got a double shift tonight. No can do.
Giles: But the world will end!
Buffy: And my rent is due. I don't work tonight and I'll be out on the street. Can't Slay without somewhere to live. Tell the apocalypse to wait.

It's not like the Council would find it that much of a strain supporting one Slayer, even in California. They could probably fund Buffy from their annual tea budget without noticing. (Especially as they're based in Britain, a country that once bought up all the tea in the world.)

 

[Skanky Vamp]

yet the Slayer, whose time is limited, is expected to make their own way in the world?

But that's I imagine why potentials age out. As Kennedy alluded to, she was afraid that she was too old to be called. The Slayer wasn't supposed to make their own way. They were supposed to be young girls living with their parents. Buffy was the anomaly as she became an adult.

 

[NotASlayer]

But that's I imagine why potentials age out. As Kennedy alluded to, she was afraid that she was too old to be called. The Slayer wasn't supposed to make their own way. They were supposed to be young girls living with their parents. Buffy was the anomaly as she became an adult.

Thinking about it, how much of an anomaly was Buffy? The Slayers we saw - Buffy, Kendra, Nikki Wood, the Chinese one whose name I can't remember, Faith - all looked to be making their own way in the world.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

@NoShip ; Then maybe it's just cultural osmosis, but it seems today that there's some cultural zeitgeist where everything is understood as a mental illness, everyone's been traumatized by something, and everyone needs therapy. This could be true, of course, but it's different from how things were done in the past.

 

[NoShip]

@NoShip ; Then maybe it's just cultural osmosis, but it seems today that there's some cultural zeitgeist where everything is understood as a mental illness, everyone's been traumatized by something, and everyone needs therapy. This could be true, of course, but it's different from how things were done in the past.

'Cultural Osmosis' is a great description. From what I saw, most of the people were looking for a legal way to get some good drugs & have their insurance company pay the bill.

 

[garfan]

I don't know. I grew up in L.A. and while therapy may not have been a half sacrament, it was a stop on the road to happiness for a lot of Angelenos - especially the ones with good health insurance. Also, a 'good' therapist got you well down the road to a proper drugging. 🤪

Willow's mother seems to be either a psychologist or psychiatrist. She seems interested in the field but is very clearly sick of being analyzed. Meanwhile Welcome to the Hellmouth has Cordelia talking about her mother in a way that she spends some time pretty heavily medicated

It was eventually declare Buffy spent time involuntarily committed.

So over all I think the Scoobies who could afford counseling had no interest

 

[Skanky Vamp]

The Slayers we saw - Kendra, Nikki Wood, the Chinese one whose name I can't remember,

We know Kendra didn't live long. No idea how long the others lived. Faith only lived because of Buffy and there being two slayers.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

And about the original reason for this thread, how dumb was Tara, to even contemplate that anyone who could perform magic as easily as Willow did, would want her world to be constantly worse than it was is just plain stupid. Of course Willow is going to want her life to be easier.

 

[Plasma]

Willow is just doing magic to make things go the way she wants including doing a spell on Tara. Now at this point Willow had done a spell on her, but otherwise, the spells she'd done in the season were resurrecting Buffy

This one is absolutely correct and a correct accusation on Tara’s behalf. Instead of moving on from loss and living life, Willow instead focused on losing Buffy and refused to let her rest in peace.

It’s a blatant example of “you were too preoccupied with whether or not you could to contemplate if you should”. In all her prep work for this ritual, she never even considered that Buffy might’ve gone to heaven (or a happy place of some sort), and instead coped with saying she was in hell.

Willow literally brought Buffy back to life because she wanted to.

 

[garfan]

This one is absolutely correct and a correct accusation on Tara’s behalf. Instead of moving on from loss and living life, Willow instead focused on losing Buffy and refused to let her rest in peace.

It’s a blatant example of “you were too preoccupied with whether or not you could to contemplate if you should”. In all her prep work for this ritual, she never even considered that Buffy might’ve gone to heaven (or a happy place of some sort), and instead coped with saying she was in hell.

Willow literally brought Buffy back to life because she wanted to.,

I disagree. I really think that with the active Slayer cooling her heels in jail, choosing death for a magically created person was the wrong thing to do. I think bringing Buffy back was the right thing to do. I also consider bringing someone back less of a violation of the natural order than creating someone whole cloth.

And if the writers didn't get that, then they didn't understand the story they were writing . And if that sounds far fetched, they thought their fans would appreciate this but the actors didn't even apprciate it. this story led to SMG saying she didn't understand Buffy and at least partly to her not coming back after season 7, Amber Benson not coming back because she thought it would be used to hurt the fans. Season 6 was almost universally called season sux at the time.