Hugh Hefner - Cultural and Feminist Lightning Rod

[Skanky Vamp]

being a playmate was a big deal and was like an official badge of hotness...

More than just that, it opened doors for them that may never have been opened. It propelled them into society's consciousness in a way they could not do by themselves. It was, for many women, the ultimate marketing tool as they launched their careers from being featured in the mag; and not just in the 50s and 60s but even as recently as a decade ago when the magazine still had its clout.
 

This thread is about Herfner not Joss may I remind you Pole.

Thank you for your rebuke, but in the event you did not bother to read the original post @Ethan Reigns asks the question "Was he more or less of a benefit to feminism than Joss Whedon?"

 

[Skanky Vamp]

@brinkster130 You big elitist you! What's wrong with reality stars? There are MANY people that aspire to be that. That is the new popular profession... reality / youtube personality. If you can earn a living without "working" why wouldn't you?

 

[brinkster130]

@brinkster130 You big elitist you! What's wrong with reality stars? There are MANY people that aspire to be that. That is the new popular profession... reality / youtube personality. If you can earn a living without "working" why wouldn't you?

You aren’t the first person to call me that. 🙂

I didn’t mean to come off as saying reality stars are a negative, there is nothing wrong with that. I meant that the only women who I can name who’ve been on a cover recently were also on reality tv so their covers got more attention than the average since it was also a storyline on tv. (Girls Next Door, The Hills, KUWTK) It seems like the girls who make the cover of SI swim or who get to wear the angel wings at the Victoria Secret fashion show are more notable than current playmates. (That perception could be totally off)

I did just google recent covers and Kate Moss was on in 2014 and Pam was on in 2016 so they are still clearly pulling big names. Also, just looking back at the most popular covers really shows how iconic it was to be on the cover. I totally forgot Cindy Crowford did it in her modeling heyday.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

It seems like the girls who make the cover of SI swim or who get to wear the angel wings at the Victoria Secret fashion show are more notable than current playmates. (That perception could be totally off)

That's what I meant, the last decade or so it really lost it's brand recognition but it was still viewed as a boon to your resume to be featured. They thought going to the "no nude/instagram-type" covers would reinvigorate the brand but it failed to do so. There was too much of a stigma around the publication for it to find the hold it once had, while the other two that you mentioned are arguably just as bad as Playboy.

I totally forgot Cindy Crowford did it in her modeling heyday.

Drew Barrymore and Mariah Carey too.

I didn’t mean to come off as saying reality stars are a negative, there is nothing wrong with that.

Uh huh, right. The old "there is nothing wrong with that" line that all elitists say when thinking to themselves, such a shame. I'm hip to your game.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Back to the question of whether Hefner was more of a benefit to feminism than Whedon. The opening scene in Buffy shows a boy and a girl breaking into a school and when they are satisfied no one else is there, the girl (Darla) vamps out and kills the boy, a reversal of the usual trope. There are good dramatic reasons for reversing the normal trope of the little blonde girl getting killed and as a byproduct of this, the scene has some of the "girl power" trappings of feminism, so Joss accepted the label of "feminist" whereas the real answer may be "opportunist" or "dramatist".

Hefner had unwavering support for individual civil liberties including reproductive freedom and most girls liked their stay at the Playboy mansion. Playboy magazine was a positive step in dismantling the political stranglehold that held up the sexual revolution and criminalized homosexuality. Feminism rode the wave of the sexual revolution and paradoxically, blamed Hefner for all the sins of our culture.

As for accusations against him, I know of two women who slandered men about sexual misconduct; one a woman in a messy divorce who said that her husband abused her 8-year old boy that she was still breast-feeding and another case of a high-school girl who hatched a plot to accuse a teacher at her school of sexual misconduct while she was in our home within the earshot of my wife. I am now sitting less than 20 feet away from where this happened. The school board had a subpoena ready for my wife, but the girl moved out of our county and the case never materialized. So if you are going to make accusations about anyone, I REQUIRE PROOF or I feel justified in ignoring it.

 

[GoSpuffy]

I'm fine with Hugh sleeping with 1000 women. I'm fine with a business making money off of sex. Im fine with women choosing to become famous or make their money or what ever their motivation is by posing nude. The problem comes with employers sleeping with staff or in general people in authority perusing sexual relationships with underlings. We have rules about that in every other business. Hugh could have found all the partners he wanted without dating the staff. Women should be equally protected in every industry.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Charisma Carpenter has said this of her Playboy photo shoot which was after having given birth a year earlier:

I wanted to get back to my old self. I wanted to feel desirable and sexy. So I thought, "What if I went full throttle?'

Posing in Playboy is more then just baring your body. It's about baring your soul. It's about finding joy, liberation, and warmth. I'm a very shy person, and I really came out of my shell during the shoot. At first, I was very nervous since I had only given birth less then a year before and just recently lost most of the weight I put on during my pregnancy. I insisted that my husband be present for the shoot so I would feel more comfortable in front the photographer and crew. By the time the two-day shoot was over, I was so relaxed and comfortable with displaying my nude body on the set that my husband was saying, "Honey, they're not shooting now. You can put your robe back on."

This does not sound like someone who was taken advantage of. You could possibly call it a self-esteem problem but that has nothing to do with Hefner - he just made the photo shoot possible.

 

[GoSpuffy]

Charisma Carpenter has said this of her Playboy photo shoot which was after having given birth a year earlier:

I wanted to get back to my old self. I wanted to feel desirable and sexy. So I thought, "What if I went full throttle?'

Posing in Playboy is more then just baring your body. It's about baring your soul. It's about finding joy, liberation, and warmth. I'm a very shy person, and I really came out of my shell during the shoot. At first, I was very nervous since I had only given birth less then a year before and just recently lost most of the weight I put on during my pregnancy. I insisted that my husband be present for the shoot so I would feel more comfortable in front the photographer and crew. By the time the two-day shoot was over, I was so relaxed and comfortable with displaying my nude body on the set that my husband was saying, "Honey, they're not shooting now. You can put your robe back on."

This does not sound like someone who was taken advantage of. You could possibly call it a self-esteem problem but that has nothing to do with Hefner - he just made the photo shoot possible.

So Charisma was in charge and it looks like she didn't have to sleep with anyone against her will for her paycheque. No problem there. She was already famous and was able to control some aspects. But what about younger women who think their photo won't be chosen unless they do what the boss asks? They have less money, less control and they need the job more. It changes things.

 

[Anyanka Bunny Slayer]

So if you are going to make accusations about anyone, I REQUIRE PROOF or I feel justified in ignoring it.

Oh my God. Several years ago, a pharmacist (who REALLY didn't like me) said that I couldn't use that pharmacy anymore...because he claimed that I'd injured another customer's child! I was completely stunned...he couldn't find a legitimate reason to ban me from that place, so he made one up! Long story short, I sued the company for defamation of character and won. I got a great financial settlement, an official apology from the company, and the best part...dude got transferred to another pharmacy, in Santa Clarita (He lived in Culver City lol!) 😀 His mistake was assuming he could make up a terrible story about me, and people would believe him; because he was a "respected" pharmacist. But the truth always comes out.

 

[thrasherpix]

In case anyone wants to help out people sexually exploited, this looks pretty good:

Children of the Night | Rescuing America's Children from Prostitution

I've looked into them not too long ago but haven't made a firm decision yet (and just remembered it). This is a good start, though:

Charity Navigator - Rating for Children of the Night

Those in the UK and other places should look into similar organizations. Just check them out first. Check all charities out first, and if you donate online then make sure it's going where it's supposed to be going.

 

[thrasherpix]

Btw, I'm skipping a lot as I don't want to drift too far from what this is about, but I just remembered something (and sharing before I forget)...for what it's worth, his daughter:

Christie Hefner - Wikipedia

Christie Ann Hefner (born November 8, 1952) is the former Playboy Enterprises Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, a company created by her father, Hugh Hefner. She stepped down from her position at Playboy on January 30, 2009.[1] She has often worked with the progressive political organization Center for American Progress. Their site describes her as having "long been involved in electing progressive candidates, advancing women, First Amendment issues and advancing treatment for people with HIV/AIDS." She is currently chairman of the board of Hatch Beauty[2][3] and serves on the advisory board of Springboard Enterprises

I don't know much about her either, but I recall being surprised by this years ago, and thinking that at least her dad saw women as more than sexy things.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I don't see Whedon winning any humanitarian of the year awards anytime soon. I guess it just depends on how you define "good" to me there is no contest, Hefner did more good for women's rights and women's issues than Whedon has done.

But I wouldn't call either a feminist. And I am not some johnny-come-lately Whedon hater, my dislike for him goes back ages.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

The thing about Monroe, I understand why he did it. It made perfect business sense. Those pictures had had an astronomical rise in value, but few outlets at the time would be willing to take advantage. If I was Hef, I may have done the same. I might have felt kinda shitty about it, but I am not perfect. I like money.

What I cannot understand is why he feels the need to get buried next to her. It is so bloody unnecessary. I know she is dead and he is dead too and it therefore does not matter all that much, but that is sorta the point. Why!? Why did he do it? He screwed her over in life and now he cannot leave her alone in death? It is just adding insult to injury in the most unnecessary way imaginable.

Monroe killed her self. Not because of Hef specifically, but from the stress of being one of the very first paparazzi victims in the early days of modern celebrity culture. I don't think a nudity scandal in the most reactionary, misogynistic and repressed decade of the last century made her short life easier.

Oh gawd, I had to stop reading that after they got into Holly Madison the poor wee little bunny... please. She and other girls make it sound as if he picked them up off the street, against their wills, and locked them up in that house like he's Buffalo Bill or something.

RIP Hef, flaws and all.

I must say, I am a little surprised. I think I remember you being somewhat less forgiving of Joss. It is almost as if you think there should be different rules for TV producers than for polygamous pornographers. Damn! That sounded stupid when I said it out loud. Someone help!