"I Need A Second Front..."

Airam said:
I will always chalk up Angel's appearance, and that kiss, in Chosen as simply a way to appease Bangel fans too since it was the last episode... well that and to bring the amulet so Spike could wear it. But to me none of that whole Buffy/Angel stuff in Chosen made any sense. It made no sense that Buffy's first reaction be to kiss him. No other time that she saw him after he left Sunnydale did she immediately walk up to him a plant a wet one on him. And it especially made no sense for Angel to act like he did, like he was still all immaturishly hung up on her. For Christ Sake, this coincided with all the Cordy tragedy in S4 Angel! He was completely in love with Cordy and he sees Buffy and what, forgets all about that? It made no sense at all to me, felt fully unrealistic and frankly pissed me off a little, no alot. Cordy would have ripped him a new one if she could! Joss just wanted to throw both Spuffy and Bangel fans a bone IMO.
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I am so with you.

The fact that Buffy just jumps on him to kiss him is quite weird. And since Angel had his love for Cordelia, it makes no sense that he would react like he did. What was Cordy? A quickie untill he met up with Buffy again? I don't get it.

But I am of the belive that Buffy send Angel away because she knew she couldn't choose. She would end up having to choose between Spike and Angel, and she couldn't.
The fact is, she loves them both....But Spuffies and Bangels will never really accept that fact.

I know it, and I still wants her to only love Spike 😛
 
Everyone's so eager to believe that Buffy always speaks the truth when she tells Spike she loves him, but not when she tells Angel she wants him to leave because she needs a second front. Hmm...

And sure, it's possible that Joss threw the Bangel moment in there to appease Bangel fans. Just like it's possible he threw the "I love you" in to appease Spuffy fans. It's possible she really truly did love Spike, and it's possible she really did still have feelings for Angel. We'll never know, we can only go by our own opinions of the show.
 
Well its been a while since I've listened to the commentary for Chosen but I'm pretty sure Joss says something along the lines of including big Spuffy and Bangel moments in the finale so neither camp would be mad at him. Spike had been there all along and what he and Buffy had had been building for a while and this last hurrah should have been its crescendo. If Joss in fact alluded to that, since this was now Spike's show not Angel's then yeah, Angel was the one brought in to appease Bangel fans... which is cool I guess, the appeasing was done rather well besides the whole weird intitial greeting. And also Joss did say he told Sarah to mean it when she said "I love you." So she meant it.
 
First of all why does everyone disregard the cookie dough speech! She speaks the truth! She loves them both but shes not able to decide yet... On the otherhand Buffy is a total retard for kicking Angel out... I mean come on! Then she puts Anya with Andrew to fight! Anya could've lived if Angel was there!
And also Joss did say he told Sarah to mean it when she said "I love you." So she meant it.
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Again that's just appeasment if it the I love you looks like crap thats lots of leverage for Bangel fans and then the Spuffies get violent.
 
I've never claimed Buffy didn't love Angel. I believe she does and always will. And I'm a spuffy. But like you were saying, she can't choose, because she loves them both, and that includes Spike. I don't think most spuffys deny that she loves Angel, I think most of us are aware of that fact. But if not, that's okay for me too. But the question is, how many Bangels feel the same way, and don't deny that Buffy loves Spike also? (it's a real question, it's not just rhetorical )
 
To answer Urgent Power: less than half. Some are openminded...others are stubborn. I think it's the fact that Buffy loves Angel's "grandson"´most Bangels hate. ( imo)
 
I prefer Buffy with Spike, but I've never said that she didn't love Angel, too. It's completely normal. I still love the first girl who I had a real romantic relationship with, and that was well over 40 years ago. I still think of her qccasionally, and even wonder what our life together might have been like. That doesn't mean that I love my wife any less, or that I would leave her for my old love if the opportunity presented itself. It's perfectly possible to love more than one person at different stages of your life, and the sad fact is, as most older Board members will I have no doubt confirm, first love is very rarely last love. It does happen, but quite rarely.

And, just for the record, I have no real argument with those Bangels who insist that Buffy's heart and soul will always remain with Angel, because we Spuffies know that all of the rest of her belongs to William the Bloody. (Would that be a new 'ship? Billiam. It has possibilities.
 
white avenger said:
And, just for the record, I have no real argument with those Bangels who insist that Buffy's heart and soul will always remain with Angel, because we Spuffies know that all of the rest of her belongs to William the Bloody. (Would that be a new 'ship? Billiam. It has possibilities.
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Billiam... I like that... But I like Spuffy more.. It's raw and passionable. It's looooove...And luuuuuuust
 
white avenger
white avenger
...and luuuuust!
white avenger said:
And, just for the record, I have no real argument with those Bangels who insist that Buffy's heart and soul will always remain with Angel, because we Spuffies know that all of the rest of her belongs to William the Bloody. (Would that be a new 'ship? Billiam. It has possibilities.
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Lovely. You make her sound like a vampire!
 
What we need is a comic crossover! So Buffy can see Angel is human and Spike is alive... Then we could settle the issue of who she'd choose because both of them are their for the taking... no pesky soul losing issues or anything
 
Airam
Airam
Ahhhh! Spoilers BAD, very BAD... I had no clue Angel was human *cries*
P
Perny
He is human now? I didn't know. Spoiler warning next time please
Guys please careful with Season 8 and After the Fall spoilers when you are posting outside the Comic forum, not everyone has read them and we don't want any nasty surprising popping up on people 🙂
 
Ack! Spoilerific... Oh well.

Just wanted to say that I agree: Buffy clearly feels she can't deal with the Angel/Spike issue at that point in the series. I mean, she knows that dealing with an apocalypse is difficult enough, but keeping Spike and Angel under control is just too much extra to handle.

Also, she probably realizes there is no good way to resolve this scenario. How can she possibly hope to satisfy both Angel and Spike? One of their hearts is going to have to be fully broken, and the time to do that is clearly AFTER the 1st Evil is destroyed. So even though it seems a bit selfish of Buffy to send Angel away, I think she's actually being quite selfless.
 
EveryNiteISaveU said:
Im new here and Im probably going to get some flack for this...but am I the only one who doesnt really dig the Angel character? I think he's kinda wussy...
I for one, am glad that Buffy sent him back to LA before all hell broke loose in the series finale...I think that ship had sailed long ago (Bangel) and she knew it...even if she kissed him out of habit/lingering feelings. Im sure it's not hard to be attracted to a guy like Angel (he's not ugly, that's for sure..) but that doesnt mean she was still in love with him, does it?
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I totally hate Angel. Since the beginning, he's really annoying, treated Buffy like a child and was too moody. He killed a lot of people.... he should get over it.

But yea, I thought it was fairly clear that Buffy said that because she wanted him gone. I mean it is also probably half true that she wanted a second front, but in all honesty, there were other motives there too.
 
^ I still don't get why Buffy is the Queen of Honesty when saying she loves Spike, but has hidden motives when she tells Angel to leave.

Do I think she loved Spike? Yes. I don't think she was 'in love' with Spike, and I don't like their relationship at all. But yes, she cared for him, she grew to trust him, etc etc.

And what Joss said during the commentary was in that moment, Buffy did love Spike. And who wouldn't? He was sacrificing himself to save the world. Anybody would love him. But, as Buffy said herself, she wasn't ready. She wasn't baked yet. Stuff with Angel was left open-ended, and so was stuff with Spike. That was intentional.
 
fly on the wall said:
^ I still don't get why Buffy is the Queen of Honesty when saying she loves Spike, but has hidden motives when she tells Angel to leave.
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Having hidden motives doesn't dethrone Buffy, Queen of Honesty. It simply means that she couldn't afford the added stress and distraction of having two jealous vampires vying for her attention while she faced what was most certainly the most powerful enemy any Slayer had ever encountered. A second front was probably a good idea, and it served to keep Spike and Angel separated.

She loved both vampires, and that was the worst possible moment to have to make THE final choice. Choose angel and break Spike's heart? Choose Spike and start Angel on another brood-fest? Either decision would have weakened her forces more than simply having one more super powered soldier could have compensated for.
 
Oh I wasn't getting into an Angel/Spike love debate. I'm a spuffy fan... but taking that bias away I meant that who wants their two kind of lovers together... even if she loved Angel more, it would be irrelevant because Spike was in the cause and couldn't be pushed out. Furthermore, she was kinda "with" Spike. Not in actuality but they had some sort of "thing", and if he lived and Angel was around and they competed Angel would've won maybe, but like I think a lot of us have that situation where we're with someone and an ex comes back, you at least don't instantly dump the person you're with... you wait at least..hmmm... a week 😛 lol.
 
M
MSchett
but Buffy waits only a couple minutes before she starts making out with Angel lol
Airam
Airam
^ which was seriously uncharacteristic.
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