I Will Remember You

A

angeldork

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With the episode 'I Will Remember You' Angel had decided to give up his humanity for the greater good. The only the Oracles could do that is if they rewinded history but the catch was, was that Angel was gonna have to live with those memories for the rest of his life. Now after that episode took place and the one after were he tells Doyle what had happened; there was no other acknowledgment of that day, what had happened. All of the episodes that had happened since and the few cross-overs that Angel had made back into Buffy's life, there wasn't one time that they had ever talked about that since. No future acknowledgment of the pain and heartache that Angel was feeling knowing that he had one perfect day with Buffy, that he was human. I just find that interesting.
 
It was never talked about because the pain of the memories of that perfect day is another cross Angel has to bear. For Buffy to know they had it only for it to be snatched away from them would hurt her too much, the potential memories would torture her and so Angel always kept it entirely to his self for her sake.
As for the others at A.I I don't think he ever talked to them about it, because basically he didn't wish to. Talking about it could only make the memories worse, every word constantly reminding him of what he could have had. To not talk about it is to pretend to forget even if he always remembers.
 
V
Vicariously
exactly!
S
SoBlind
agreed. although i would have liked some acklowledgment (cos it was a great episode), not getting anything makes sense. cordy and doyle knew how sore a spot buffy was for angel
T
ToShanshuInLA
Oi, I'm glad he never told Buffy about it. That would be awful for her.
If the "they" you're referring to are the cast, the whole point of the episode was that Angel, true to his character throughout the series, had once again made a decision that affected everyone without allowing them any input into the matter. I think that the entire scene where he tells Buffy what he had done was just put in for its tear jerking value. If he really wanted everyone to forget, for no one to suffer, to take the entire pain and knowledge upon himself, he should have just kissed Buffy, told her that he loved her, and held her for those last few seconds until time reversed itself ( it just occurred to me that he did the same thing here that Eliza did in "Tru Calling." Weird) and never had to live with seeing her reaction to what he had done. Telling her served no purpose whatsoever, other than adding something else to his "brood list."

If the "they" you're referring to is the writing staff, director. etc., there just probably wasn't any reason to bring it up. The same thing happened when Angel made the deal with W&H at the end of Season 4, except that, since the "Son kills Sahjahn," prophecy was still in effect, there was a story where the reversal of the spell was used as a plot element. Strangely, with the same result: once the episode was over, the entire matter was never mentioned again. Wesley never came to Angel and expressed any regret for what he did, Angel never apologized to Wes for trying to kill him, and neither Fred nor Gunn ever apologized th Wes for their lack of concern for him after he got his throat cut trying to do what he thought was thr right thing to save the baby.
 
E
Entiel
Fred and Gunn did not know,also maybe they said those things but didn't fit on the next episode's time...
Wishing Oceans
Wishing Oceans
[No message]
Yeah it always made me go "bad angel" for telling her right before... but i also think that maybe he was tired of all the secrets, and he could be honest with her in that moment without repercussion. or... like white avenger said, the writers just wanted more drama lol.

And i always felt horrible that Angel had just one more cross to bear (no pun intended) but i think it just proves how strong he is as a person...vampire...thing...man. yes, a person-vampire-thing-man.
 
I think it was never mentioned again because quite honestly it would hurt Angel too much to share his burden with others only for them to look at him with pitty as he is the only one in the world who remembers that day. He told Doyle only to get it off his chest so that he could move on. Once again Angel did te selfless thing and let her go. Personally that epi destroyed me. I realized then that Buffy and Angel would never ever be together again. 🙁 Not truly anyway. 🙁
 
S
SoBlind
when did angel tell doyle?? either i dont remember or just never realised. in any case...need-to-see-it. lol
Ah yes. The episode that made me dislike Angel with every fiber of my being. It's amazing that he can dismiss his act of psychic rape as something for "the greater good" or a "cross he had to bear in silent pain". Damn control freak. Damn hypocrite.
 
yeah, i don't see much romantic and tragic about this one either. IWRY always kind of disturbs me. Ok i get that Angel feels he can't be as useful as a man as he is as a vampire, i get that he doesn't want a reward he hasn't earned and that to him it's a cheap way to redemption. All understandable and admirable. I don't get why he doesn't tell Buffy the truth after the event - he lets her leave, with the angsty, lovey feeling all rippling between them when he has categorically chosen to be a vampire (with a curse) rather than a human being, with her. I get why he made the decision - i have no argument with that. But to let her go, deluded, thinking all is the same between them that it has always been is akin to lying to her. He should have come clean and owned his decision. He gets to hang on to Buffy's love but she never gets to know the truth - that he chose not to be with her (even if it is for her safety - he still made that decision). it's cruel. Buffy goes back to Sunnydale still pineing for him, enters into a substitute relationship with Reilly all on the foundation that she can't have the one she really wants because of their tragic cirsumstances when really, he has not chosen her.
 
S
SoBlind
its still the 'tragic circumstances'that dont allow them to be together. angel knew how much she loved him. and he loved her too much to make it worse for her as both tried to move on. that was the agreement before IWRY.i get what you're saying tho
Well I know I wouldn't be happy with Angel if he chose his own life instead of giving it up for Buffy, which was what he was told he was doing.

Don't know how many times I've commented on this over the years 😛 But Angel is the sacrificing type of guy, he thought he was doing the right thing for her, and he didn't have a choice in telling her because she saw the look on his face and was asking questions. Later he tells Doyle and Cordelia reluctantly because it's obviously hard to talk about. Actually most psychologists would say there's no use in telling her the truth either, because it only serves to make himself feel better, and will cause Buffy pain. Having said that if I was Buffy I'd want to know.
 
white avenger
white avenger
Willow osed the "mind wipe" to invade someone else's mind, it impose her will on them, the same as Angel. Whatever the motive, both Willow and Angel did exactly the same thing.
alexa said:
Well I know I wouldn't be happy with Angel if he chose his own life instead of giving it up for Buffy, which was what he was told he was doing.

Don't know how many times I've commented on this over the years 😛 But Angel is the sacrificing type of guy, he thought he was doing the right thing for her, and he didn't have a choice in telling her because she saw the look on his face and was asking questions.


I agree, Angel is "a sacrificing kind of guy," my problem with him is that too many of those sacrifices affect others as much if not more than they do him, but he never allows them any say in his decision.

Why was the issue of Willow manipulating her friends' memories in "Once More With Feeling" and "Tabula Rasa" considered so deplorable, but the same exact thing in "I will Remember You," plus what Angel did to all of his friends in manipulating their memories so that they forgot that Connor ever existed considered simply noble sacrifices? If Willow was sick and needed help, then so was Angel, the only difference between the two being that he got away with it and she didn't?
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A
alexa
well she was doing it for selfish reasons.. but I agree they used the mindwipe thing way to often
I agree with Alexa's karma comment there. Willow was doing it for selfish reasons. She purposely wiped their memories just so everything could be easier for her and Tara wouldn't be mad at her.

Angel had her and everyone's memories wiped and everything changed back because he was told being human would risk and shorten Buffy's life. I personally think he was saving Buffy by not telling her. To know what they could have had only to have it so brutually taken away would have tortured Buffy in the same way it tortured Angel. Ignorance is bliss after all...
 
November
November
i agree
PassionBecoming
PassionBecoming
I agree, as well. Angel might not always make the best choices, but he does them trying to do what is truly right and selfless.
Angel had her and everyone's memories wiped and everything changed back because he was told being human would risk and shorten Buffy's life. I personally think he was saving Buffy by not telling her.
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I'm sorry, but I am so not buying this.


To me, Angel was a selfish and controlling little cretin who couldn't handle not having the vampire strength to deal with the supernatural beings he fought. Without that strength, he could not be a hero. I suspect that deep down that his act of sacrifice was nothing more than bulls*t. I've always thought that Angel was nothing more than a control freak, who got his kicks making decisions for others . . . without their consent. If he had really cared about Buffy, he would have told her what happened. He would have told her what he was considering, before he allowed TPTB to remove her memories and turn back time. But he didn't, because he had to be in control. And considering that Buffy ended up dead, a year-and-a-half later (with Angel not around), it seemed that Angel gave up being a human for nothing.

As far as I'm concerned, this episode is a prime example of why I detest Angel. And I detest this episode, as well. The only reason I had continued watching the show was for the other characters.
 
H
Hello Cutie
Yes!! I completely see where you're coming from on this!
Now me, it's one of my favorite Angel eps. I always saw it more as Angel wrestling with his conscience, and once more, as is often the case with Angel, coming to a conclusion that may or may not have been the correct one.

This one wasn't a biggie for me. I was more angry at Angel for killing Drogyn in Season 7.
 
Angel rejected his humanity because he couldn't cope with being human. Sure, his excuse was that he was doing it to protect Buffy (she died anyway), but the truth was that without his superhuman strength and immortality, he was nothing. There are several perfectly capable demon fighters who are completely human, no enhanced senses, no accelerated healing, nothing but their skill, wits, and determination. Gunn, Wesley, Xander, Giles, even Fred were all quite capable demon fighters, and they were completely human. Angel could have done the same thing if his real goal was to be a "champion." He just couldn't be the strongest kid on the block, and he couldn't live with that. As for erasing the day and regaining his powers, why did he tell Buffy there at the end? He was taking away her memories of their time together "for her own good," and "to protect her," so why at that last moment did he have to tell her? Why didn't he just let the time run out and remember her happy rather than broken hearted crying, "No, that's too soon..." That was sheer cruelty, and there is no other word for it. Maybe it was his way of getting back at her for sending him to hell with a sword in his chest back in Buffy Season 2.

This entire episode was nothing but a tear jerker, pure and simple. As that, it served its purpose quite well. Heck, I even got choked up, and you all know how hard hearted and synical I can be. I think, though, that this was where I really began to lose my patience with the whole Buffy/Angel circus.
 
B
Blondie Bear
I hadn't thought of it that way, but I'm more than happy to start. :)
S
Spikefan31
[No message]
Actually it's classic Greenwalt/Joss. David seems to love writing the heart wrenching episodes, and I totally agree that Angel should have gone to Buffy before he went to the oracles and made the decision. And yep I don't buy the 'humans are weak' crap because we see so many of them on his team doing really well.. you know for a while till they die 😉

But I get that the episode can only go for so long, and we can't just cancel Angel now and have him trot back over to BtVS. I don't agree though that Angel is a control freak.. He does like to have control and be a leader, that's for sure, but I don't think it's often shown to have negative consequences, and this wasn't one of those times for me. I was also more cranky with Angel's character when he started sacrificing evil humans in season 5.

As a bangel shipper I was pissed that he let her go.. or just pissed that the writers had to have it be him or her life type situation again. But I wouldn't trade this episode for anything, was nice to get a small taste of that.
 
I did like this episode but to be honest, I get get more choked up watching Hero. I'm actually in the minority and I think that Angel does make decisons without consulting people, but I understood why he did it. Angel worrying about being an effective warrior for the cause is not much different from Buffy worrying the same thing in Helpless. Of course the difference is what they do about it though I'm not sure if Buffy if told that Angel would die more quickly, would become a Slayer again, although that would inconsequential anyway.

From a larger view it depends on what will happen if Angel actually di remain human. Buffy will die anyway, of course, but Angel to his credit does ask what will happen to Buffy if he does fight as a human. Others do fight as human but of course they also benefit from Angel's preternatural strength as well as Buffy's (see The Wish, and Epiphany for support.) Yes, Angel can fight as human, but if they both die sooner, then that's bad for humanity from a larger scale. Of course for less quantitive argument against this view see Angel's sacrifice in The Trial (Let it not be said that Kana can't see both sides of the story lol).

Angel is a little macho but like Buffy he cannot stop thinking like a warrior. I actually don't think it has to be one or the other exclusively.

Tid bits from the ep:

The Oracles confused me a bit, I'm not sure of what their overall view is and what it is they know. The need-to-know basis worries me because it becomes difficult to make decisions in favour of what they say because you don't know that they have other interests in telling you (Jasmine was a former power).

Are the PTBs going to be responsible for Angel shanshuing? It seem a like a cruel manipulation on their part of they are simply implying it. The Oracles heavily suggest that if Angel did have humanity from the Apocalypse then they might reward him. Again if they aren't, it seems a little cruel to suggest it.

The other issue I have is that it is implied by the Oracles that Angel should be a vampire carrying a burden, which means he's "not a lower being". I hve to wonder, if Angel's final decision was all noble by their standards, is it a set up? A test if you will to see if he is suitable warrior for their cause? Considering how dodgy the PTBs can be, I'm beginning to wonder how much of what the Oracles said is true or whether it was all to 'use' Angel some more, they way they want him to be by their standards.

None of this negates Angel's intentions. If he was genuinely trying to save Buffy's life, then I'd say it was more on the noble side. The Scoobies and the Fang Gang overall will benefit from two preternaturally strong warriors.

Don't get me wrong it's not my favourite episode and I do have certain issues with Angel's 'duty' but never the less, I do find it enjoyable.

I do like Cordy in this ep. Despite being a little self involved, she says it like she sees it. It was interesting when she said, Buffy couldn't have Angel and save the world. It was nice refer back to Becoming.

Just a quick side note. I don't agree with the whole "If Angel truly loved Buffy..." statements, simply because people define love differently. It's not exclusive to but mainly amongst shippers and 'anti'-shippers who claim that one love was better or more true. I have no doubt that Angel loved Buffy but this was his way of showing it. It doesn't mean it was necessarily the right thing to do but it doesn't negate the love itself.
 
I was very disappointed at Angel's decision to go back to the Oracle and ask to be changed to a vampire with a soul a gain. In his mind, his intention might've been good, for the good humanity and all.. but it doesn't mean that he couldn't fight evil alongside Buffy just because he was human. Look at Riley and Principal Wood. They were both humans. Sure, Riley had the Initiative's technological gadgets and Principal Wood was raised by his mother's Watcher. But that just meant that it took practice and training to be just almost as effective as having vampire strength (Robin Wood did just fine fighting vampires with human strength and stakes). The end of this episode made me feel crushed to know what could've been, and in a way I was glad that Buffy didn't have to live the rest of the seasons with that memory to bear.
 
Im really not happy with this episode, didnt love it, never want to see it again. Simple as that. because it makes me hate them both
 
disappointing episode, pretty slow and unworthy off the praise it gets.
 
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