This is one of my favorite episodes. I was kind of mad he asked the oracles to turn him back into a vampire with a soul. I wanted Buffy and him to finally be together but it never happens. Due to me being a person that cries during every sad episode of Buffy and Angel I pretty much cried when Buffy was crying it sucked and she wanted to be with him and they only had a minute with each other when he came back. And her saying I wont forgot very sad episode, I love it but hate it. And I walked out to get a tissue and my mom just stared at me and thought I was crying because I was sick, and then I told her the whole episode. 😛
Yea my mom doesnt watch Angel or Buffy because "I dont like the demons, the things with the evil faces."-mom, I got her to watch other vamp shows like Moonlight.
So who actually likes this episode?
i LOVE this episode(mind you i love most whedony things lol), its really nice for us to get to see them together like that.... we're not always wondering what if? because of that, and it deepened what he felt for her i think, and was a really great break away episode.... and then back into the action
With the episode 'I Will Remember You' Angel had decided to give up his humanity for the greater good. The only the Oracles could do that is if they rewinded history but the catch was, was that Angel was gonna have to live with those memories for the rest of his life. Now after that episode took place and the one after were he tells Doyle what had happened; there was no other acknowledgment of that day, what had happened. All of the episodes that had happened since and the few cross-overs that Angel had made back into Buffy's life, there wasn't one time that they had ever talked about that since. No future acknowledgment of the pain and heartache that Angel was feeling knowing that he had one perfect day with Buffy, that he was human. I just find that interesting.
Very good point...I guess it was so hard for him he jut kept it to himself. I guess Cordy and Doyles memories were swiped too.
Something occured to me today when I was rewatching this ep.
When Buffy found out Angel was mortal again, she didn't even hesitate to sleep with him. Had she totally forgotten about Riley? What does this say about her? Not very good in my opinion!
And I know her memory was erased so its not like she knew she lied To Riley about anything happening between her and Angel...
but still.
It disturbs me that she was willing to cheat on Riley...despite how much she loves Angel.
Has anybody else thought about this before?
I know if she had remembered that she had done that, she would have broken up with Riley because she knew it was right...but.....
And don't get me wrong, I love this episode...it's beautiful, really. Makes me cry everytime...and I'm not even a Bangel person, you all know that 🙂
Maybe I'm just talking out of my ass and no one else cares about this...
Very good point...I guess it was so hard for him he jut kept it to himself. I guess Cordy and Doyles memories were swiped too.
Something occured to me today when I was rewatching this ep.
When Buffy found out Angel was mortal again, she didn't even hesitate to sleep with him. Had she totally forgotten about Riley? What does this say about her? Not very good in my opinion!
And I know her memory was erased so its not like she knew she lied To Riley about anything happening between her and Angel...
but still.
It disturbs me that she was willing to cheat on Riley...despite how much she loves Angel.
Has anybody else thought about this before?
I know if she had remembered that she had done that, she would have broken up with Riley because she knew it was right...but.....
And don't get me wrong, I love this episode...it's beautiful, really. Makes me cry everytime...and I'm not even a Bangel person, you all know that 🙂
Maybe I'm just talking out of my ass and no one else cares about this...
Um...despite a little bit of flirting Buffy and Riley didn't have a relationship during 'I will Remember You'. It was after this episode that she pursues a relationship with Riley.
Um...despite a little bit of flirting Buffy and Riley didn't have a relationship during 'I will Remember You'. It was after this episode that she pursues a relationship with Riley.
I just think that its further proof that Buffy never really loved Riley. It might be cheating that she so easily just slept with Angel disregarding Riley but yeah basically her love for Angel trumped what she had with Riley... I like to think of it as proof that ultimately Riley was just not deeply embedded in Buffy's heart.
Riley was more of a rebound guy anyway...I do believe they eventually developed a meaningful relationship but at the time of I Will Remember You he was just someone who didn't seem like he'd break her heart Parker-style...
I was very disappointed at Angel's decision to go back to the Oracle and ask to be changed to a vampire with a soul a gain. In his mind, his intention might've been good, for the good humanity and all.. but it doesn't mean that he couldn't fight evil alongside Buffy just because he was human. Look at Riley and Principal Wood. They were both humans. Sure, Riley had the Initiative's technological gadgets and Principal Wood was raised by his mother's Watcher. But that just meant that it took practice and training to be just almost as effective as having vampire strength (Robin Wood did just fine fighting vampires with human strength and stakes). The end of this episode made me feel crushed to know what could've been, and in a way I was glad that Buffy didn't have to live the rest of the seasons with that memory to bear.
Good point, BUT the idea the writers were selling was that his status as TpTB's champion was on condition he was the vampire with a soul, which was stated by Angel and the Oracles, I felt it was obvious it wasn't going to end right, and the writers wanted them to grow as far apart as they could,because they were growing into different people. Like "Sanctury".
I'm glad Buffy didn't have to live the rest of seasons knowing what happend either.
When taking Angel's fighting prowess in After the Fall into consideration, I think the only real factor in Angel's decision was the Oracles implying that Buffy would live longer if Angel stayed the Vampire with a Soul.
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I think they were implying she would die sooner. Like that year in a non-bring backable way because Angel, instead of being a help, would become a hinderence. And she'd probably die trying to save him again and again and again.
Definitely, or you could take it even further and say Doyle would've followed Angel to Sunnydale and she would've had to help on tptb's missions.
Really, without any stretches though, Buffy most likely would have died in "Chosen" if Angel wasn't S4's Angel. Without W&H, she would have lost the Chosen battle badly. Even if Angel was as strong as he is in AtF, heck give her Wes, Doyle, Gunn, Fred, Connor, Cordy, Lorne & Groo in addition to her Scoobies + Slayer army, the First still would have mowed them down.
im watching this episode now, i love it, he did give everything up for her, there wasnt any mention of it after he told doyle but it is in a cross-over book i think its called heat where she finds out what happened and why he did it.
When taking Angel's fighting prowess in After the Fall into consideration, I think the only real factor in Angel's decision was the Oracles implying that Buffy would live longer if Angel stayed the Vampire with a Soul.
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Definitely, or you could take it even further and say Doyle would've followed Angel to Sunnydale and she would've had to help on tptb's missions.
Really, without any stretches though, Buffy most likely would have died in "Chosen" if Angel wasn't S4's Angel. Without W&H, she would have lost the Chosen battle badly. Even if Angel was as strong as he is in AtF, heck give her Wes, Doyle, Gunn, Fred, Connor, Cordy, Lorne & Groo in addition to her Scoobies + Slayer army, the First still would have mowed them down.
Well if Angel had stayed human and Buffy had died (and stayed dead) Chosen never would have happened because it was Buffy's resurrection that caused the glitch in the slayer line and enabled The First to go after the Potentials.
It would have been a completely different story had Angel retained his humanity. Nothing would have stayed the same.
Well if Angel had stayed human and Buffy had died (and stayed dead) Chosen never would have happened because it was Buffy's resurrection that caused the glitch in the slayer line and enabled The First to go after the Potentials.
It would have been a completely different story had Angel retained his humanity. Nothing would have stayed the same.
Not necessarily. Angel's presence in Buffy's life after I Will Remember You would have totally changed the path her life took. Nothing that happened afterwards would have been garunteed, not even her dying. Countless things may have happened. She could have died and stayed dead, she may have avoided the death the Oracles prophecised somehow, Angel may have died for her...and so on and so on. If Angel had stayed human and became a fixture in her life it is almost certain that the events of Chosen would have never come to be.
Interesting opinions. I hadn't thought of this episode in those ways. Ultimately Angel was thinking more about himself, which makes sense because it was solely his decision whether or not he wanted to remain human. Buffy could have had a say, yes, but it's Angel's life to live. I think Angel told Buffy about the time limit not out of intentional cruelty, but because he felt he owed it to Buffy to be honest with her. It was probably a mistake on Angel's part to even entertain the idea of having a blissful life as a human alongside Buffy (given his sworn mission to help the helpless as a vampire with a soul), but hindsight is 20/20. On the other hand, this episode featured great acting and good writing. So, good execution of a bad idea? Probably the best way to sum it up.
So obviously being a big Buffy/Angel fan I love this episode, and I do agree with you Kanazaka that it was probably a mistake for Angel to think that he and Buffy could have a normal life together. For me though, that is one of the reasons that I like this episode so much. It gave Buffy/Angel shippers a few scenes when we finally get to see our heroes perfectly content together (which at that point we hadn't seen since season two, obviously) but it also showed fans that even if Angel was human and his soul wasn't an issue: their relationship still couldn't work.
As sorry as I was to see Angel leave BtVS, both characters really needed to grow in ways that I don't think that they could have if he had stayed. This episode let them be happy together one last time before showing fans that under no uncertain terms could their relationship work (at least not with the circumstances that they were under at that point in their lives). It gave their arc some finality and allowed both characters to move on in their respective shows, without discounting the feelings that they had for each other.
I think that without this episode happening the way that it did, a lot of Buffy/Angel fans would watch AtS thinking "why can't he just move back to Sunnydale" or "why can't Angel just fix his soul and they can do the long distance thing". In IWRY we saw exactly why: there were still too many issues surrounding their relationship that wouldn't allow it to work. And even if Angel had been some "regular joe" instead of a cursed vampire, chances are their relationship still wouldn't have lasted.
That being said, (spoiler for the later seasons of ats/btvs)
Angel has a shanshu coming up and there's like a billion other slayers now, so I'm still rooting for them to end up together in Season 8 😀
(end my two cents/ minor bangel babble 😉)
AiramLove this post... well except the part under the spoiler tag ;)
KeanSong out, sing it loud...we're Bangel and proud!
So obviously being a big Buffy/Angel fan I love this episode, and I do agree with you Kanazaka that it was probably a mistake for Angel to think that he and Buffy could have a normal life together. For me though, that is one of the reasons that I like this episode so much. It gave Buffy/Angel shippers a few scenes when we finally get to see our heroes perfectly content together (which at that point we hadn't seen since season two, obviously) but it also showed fans that even if Angel was human and his soul wasn't an issue: their relationship still couldn't work.
As sorry as I was to see Angel leave BtVS, both characters really needed to grow in ways that I don't think that they could have if he had stayed. This episode let them be happy together one last time before showing fans that under no uncertain terms could their relationship work (at least not with the circumstances that they were under at that point in their lives). It gave their arc some finality and allowed both characters to move on in their respective shows, without discounting the feelings that they had for each other.
I think that without this episode happening the way that it did, a lot of Buffy/Angel fans would watch AtS thinking "why can't he just move back to Sunnydale" or "why can't Angel just fix his soul and they can do the long distance thing". In IWRY we saw exactly why: there were still too many issues surrounding their relationship that wouldn't allow it to work. And even if Angel had been some "regular joe" instead of a cursed vampire, chances are their relationship still wouldn't have lasted.
That being said, (spoiler for the later seasons of ats/btvs)
Angel has a shanshu coming up and there's like a billion other slayers now, so I'm still rooting for them to end up together in Season 8 😀
I think this post perfectly sums up the epiphany that Buffy had in The End of Days and Chosen. She wasn't ready for a relationship and neither was Angel and they continue to not be ready or relationships. They have big honking destinies that always take their paths away from each other and any form of domestic bliss. Angel knew in IWRY that they belonged to the world of fighting and I think Buffy realised that at the end of the series. They had both, in their respective lives tried to carve out some sort of white picket normalcy to claim as their own but it literally ended in tragedy almost everytime.
I think now, more than ever Buffy and Angel know what their purposes are and are focused on that. However, in their most hopeful of times they allow themselves perchance to dream and it warms an old Bangel's heart that even now, when they look into the future, all they see is each other. 🙂
white avengerNice try, sweet lady, but I was saying that she is better off with Spike than with Angel, not that she was Spike's "forever girl."
I think now, more than ever Buffy and Angel know what their purposes are and are focused on that. However, in their most hopeful of times they allow themselves perchance to dream and it warms an old Bangel's heart that even now, when they look into the future, all they see is each other. 🙂
Like the legend of Mars and Venus, lovers cursed by their fellow gods to never be together (war and love, peace and conflict, etc). They were placed in the heavens on opposite horizons, cursed to see each other in the distance but to never be joined as long as the world holds them apart. (Greek Mythology & Lit, 1968)
(And you can consider that my welcome back present to you, Miss K. Oh, and I still think that she's better off with Spike)
KeanPresent warmly accepted ;) BTW are you changing your mind now? You have said coutless times that Buffy should be with someone we haven't even met yet and that Spike is too good for her? That hardly adds up to "she's better off with Spike" :p
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