I Will Remember You

[Kean]

Ok, I know I did this in the Shipper War thread but I frame my whole life with poetry and song lyrics that I think represent it and well, I'm a lit nerd. Deal with it. 😛

So there's this poem by Lord Byron, he's one of my absolute favourite poets ever (second only to W.B. Yeats cuz he is clearly the shiz 😉) anyway I am convinced that Joss either based IWRY (the scene of them "pleasantly numb" and fighting sleep) on this poem or Byron had visions of greatest love story ever to be told. 😛

Remind me not, Remind me not

Remind me not, remind me not,
Of those beloved, those vanish'd hours,
When all my soul was given to thee;
Hours that may never be forgot,
Till Time unnerves our vital powers,
And thou and I shall cease to be.

Can I forget--canst thou forget,
When playing with thy golden hair,
How quick thy fluttering heart did move?
Oh! by my soul, I see thee yet,
With eyes so languid, breast so fair,
And lips, though silent, breathing love.

When thus reclining on my breast,
Those eyes threw back a glance so sweet,
As half reproach'd yet rais'd desire,
And still we near and nearer prest,
And still our glowing lips would meet,
As if in kisses to expire.

And then those pensive eyes would close,
And bid their lids each other seek,
Veiling the azure orbs below;
While their long lashes' darken'd gloss
Seem'd stealing o'er thy brilliant cheek,
Like raven's plumage smooth'd on snow.

I dreamt last night our love return'd,
And, sooth to say, that very dream
Was sweeter in its phantasy,
Than if for other hearts I burn'd,
For eyes that ne'er like thine could beam
In Rapture's wild reality.

Then tell me not, remind me not,
Of hours which, though for ever gone,
Can still a pleasing dream restore,
Till thou and I shall be forgot,
And senseless, as the mouldering stone
Which tells that we shall be no more.

By Lord Byron​

---------- Post added at 02:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:06 PM ----------

Well not ALL of the lyrics 😉 I think you made one with the first four lines. 🙂

 

[white avenger]

I'll see your Byron and raise you a Wordsworth

Splendor In The Grass

What though the radiance which was once so bright
Be now for ever taken from my sight,
Though nothing can bring back the hour
Of splendor in the grass, of glory in the flower
We will grieve not, rather find
Strength in what remains behind;
In the primal sympathy
Which having been must ever be;
In the soothing thoughts that spring
Out of human suffering;
In the faith that looks through death,
In years that bring the philosophic mind.

William Wordsworth


And loving poetry isn't being a lit nerd, it's just an enjoyment of the beauty of the written word.

 

[KittoOchite]

My theory

It's Angel's show so it's about his sacrifice. Too bad that his sacrifice is for nothing, Buffy still dies. In fact his whole journey in AtS is about being alone and how people who temporarily allies with him had to die because of it: Doyle, Cordelia, Fred, Wesley. Maybe this is Angel real curse to be alone and never find happiness.

My theory is that it's not true that he sacrificed it for nothing, do you remember that the actual ceremony that the Scooby gang did to bring Buffy back? Well, they didn't finish the spell because of those motorcycling demons but she still came back alife.

Hehe, I liked this episode because you got to see David Boreanaz shirtless. 😛😛

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

It's Angel's show so it's about his sacrifice. Too bad that his sacrifice is for nothing, Buffy still dies. In fact his whole journey in AtS is about being alone and how people who temporarily allies with him had to die because of it: Doyle, Cordelia, Fred, Wesley. Maybe this is Angel real curse to be alone and never find happiness.

I totally agree. In the end, the hero always ends up alone. The hero's journey - literally and figuratively - has always traditionally been about self-sacrifice for the good of others.
In regards to your comment if Angels real curse is to be alone and never find happiness; this was the intention of the Gypsy curse, after all. Maybe it's still intact in a way. As you say, people come in and out of Angel's life but it's always temporary. Any happiness he gets is always only temporary. Perhaps he will never find true happiness with a soul.

 

[BillyidolwannaB]

Anyone else think Angel was a lameass for telling Buffy what he did like, 3 minutes before the day got took back? Making her all upset when she wasn't even gonna remember anyway! Typical Angel. Anything so he can enjoy some personal pain. He should have kept it to himself so their last few minutes together were happy ones.

 

[LadyLavinia]

This must be one of those rare cases in supernatural shows in which the main character sanctions the psychic rape of another character and his actions are romanticized and viewed as a "sacrifice". Amazing. Only Joss Whedon could get away with such a thing.

 

[GrrArghx]

It's not mind rape and I wish everyone would stop saying that. It wasn't JUST about Buffy. Angel had other reasons to give back the day and it wasn't just because he could've gotten Buffy hurt in the end if he'd stayed human. He'd only just started his road to redemption and he needed to continue to do what he was doing; he couldn't do that as a human. He wanted to EARN his redemption, not just be able to get off on a technicality.

He only had ONE choice at fixing it, and the Oracles told him that it was to turn back the day. It's not like he went back and said he personally wanted to make Buffy forget anything ever happened. It was the only choice he had.

 

[LadyLavinia]

It's not mind rape and I wish everyone would stop saying that. It wasn't JUST about Buffy. Angel had other reasons to give back the day and it wasn't just because he could've gotten Buffy hurt in the end if he'd stayed human. He'd only just started his road to redemption and he needed to continue to do what he was doing; he couldn't do that as a human. He wanted to EARN his redemption, not just be able to get off on a technicality.

He only had ONE choice at fixing it, and the Oracles told him that it was to turn back the day. It's not like he went back and said he personally wanted to make Buffy forget anything ever happened. It was the only choice he had.

Sorry, but I'm not buying your argument. If Angel had simply told Buffy about the memory loss and why they couldn't stay together AFTER THE SPELL HAD WENT INTO EFFECT, I would not be complaining today. But he didn't. And because of his failure to say anything, he had sanctioned the psychic rape of Buffy and others whose memories had been erased without their knowledge in my eyes. But this will not be the first time that Angel will end up sanctioning the memory loss of someone.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Sorry, but I'm not buying your argument. If Angel had simply told Buffy about the memory loss and why they couldn't stay together, I would not be complaining today. But he didn't. And because of his failure to say anything, he had sanctioned the psychic rape of Buffy and others whose memories had been erased without their knowledge in my eyes. But this will not be the first time that Angel will end up sanctioning the memory loss of someone.

He didn't told her because he wanted to save her from all the hurt, because he knew how she would suffer, because he was hurting too. She would be crushed. She is a slayer, she is strong, but in the end of the day, especially when it comes to Angel, she's only human.

 

[LadyLavinia]

He didn't told her because he wanted to save her from all the hurt, because he knew how she would suffer, because he was hurting too. She would be crushed. She is a slayer, she is strong, but in the end of the day, especially when it comes to Angel, she's only human.

Just reading this response pissed me off. Now you're telling me that it's okay for Angel to treat Buffy as some child who needs coddling, and shielded from the truth. You actually find this romantic?

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

It's not romantic. He belived it was the right thing to do, and that's the most important thing. They're not all romance, we all know that. Maybe that wasn't his place, maybe he should tell her, but it was all on him because only him obtained that memories.

 

[BillyidolwannaB]

There was absolutly no reason at all for Angel to tell Buffy after it had happened. What would be the point? No point is what.

 

[dan k]

I agree that there was no reason for Angel to tell Buffy what happened. I think the issue is that a lot of the fans, especially the Bangel followers wanted him to tell her what happened. I watched this episode the other day and i understood his reasons for not telling her but i was still hugely frustrated.

The amount of strength required to do what Angel did was amazing and it just added to the selfless persona that was being built around Angel around that point in time.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

I agree that there was no reason for Angel to tell Buffy what happened. I think the issue is that a lot of the fans, especially the Bangel followers wanted him to tell her what happened. I watched this episode the other day and i understood his reasons for not telling her but i was still hugely frustrated.

The amount of strength required to do what Angel did was amazing and it just added to the selfless persona that was being built around Angel around that point in time.

I actually never wanted him to tell her. I never saw a point, he would only hurt her, and that's the last thing Angel wants. She would live with knowing they had something.
Maybe, when they end up together, when the story is over, I would like him to tell her everything, because I would like to see her reaction, how would it be, and I would like for her to know that there was one perfect day in their lives when they were with no worries.

 

[crazysoulless]

PrincessBuffy16, your IWRY avatar and pics really make me want to watch that episode. It is one of the only AtS episodes that I have (I recorded several on VHS).

Even with Buffy not knowing about the original timeline in IWRY she was hesistant to enter another serious romantic relationship with someone. As Riley said, "Mostly I think you want to stay in the dark place because maybe it's safer there". It ended up taking Buffy four years before she could say "I love you" to another love interest.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Buffy never said "I love you" to Riley. She meant it, but actual world I love you never came out of her mouth. I think that's sad because he loved her so much and I think he deserved that.

She said I love you to Angel many times, and that's why I feel them. It's not easy to use that words when you know you'll wake up next day and keep loving that person.

 

[dan k]

I'd be interested to know why she never told Riley she loved him. Did she feel like she was being dishonest because she still loved Angel? I find it strange to be honest.

 

[Kana]

As for Angel telling Buffy about his decision, as I said in another forum, Buffy felt that something was a miss. I some ways espcially in early Bangel, they feel each other almost instinctually in terms of each other. Buffy can tell when Angel has 'something face'. Maybe in a way it's selfish but Angel perhaps would rather had spent their last moments (well he believed them to be their last moments) embracing and kissing each other rather than Buffy saying: "What, what, what? Angel, whats wrong?" for their last half hour or so.

---------- Post added at 11:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 PM ----------

I'd be interested to know why she never told Riley she loved him. Did she feel like she was being dishonest because she still loved Angel? I find it strange to be honest.

She held back with Riley. I'm not sure if she loved him or not. I'd like to think she did because I find the concept that she can only experience love with preternatural beings rather superficial, but she got burned by Angel and Riley had the unfortunate task of coming aterwards.

As much as I like Spike I think the ambiguity of their relationship was also apparent despite her assertions, but we digress.

 

[crazysoulless]

I was rewatching some of The Replacement today and it was almost painful to watch that car scene between Buffy and Riley. He just goes on about how he is in love with every part of her and accepts her as both Buffy and The Slayer and she doesn't say anything back. You could tell he was thinking it along with the viewers that it would have been the perfect time for her to tell him how she felt but he got nada. It would have been an awkward moment for him if she hadn't made that comment "If Xander kills himself, he's dead" and changed the mood/direction of the conversation.

I agree that the reason Angel informed Buffy that he asked the Oracles to turn him back was because she could tell something was wrong. It was just like in The Prom. As soon as he had decided to break up with him she could feel a change in him and had to know what was wrong. It lead to getting her heart broken in a sewer while on patrol.

 

[dragx]

I finally got a chance to rewatch this episode..
and I agree there would have been no point to tell Buffy what happened; it would have been bordering on cruel for Angel to tell her.

Right before time is turned back, and seeing how horribly upset Buffy was (Angel shedding a tear? I totally cried), I wouldn't have been able to tell her.