Idea of the Day: Cliquing isn't Fair or Fun

[sk]

Yeah, the first answer is the important part to avoid real cliques imho.
As a new user you really want to get an answer on your first post, it makes the second post so much easier.
And if you managed that second post the third one is even easier and soon you're a part of the community.

What you have to accept as a new user is that the older members will have some kind of history.
You can't stand up and yell clique as soon as you don't understand some internal joke.

I do think though that it's the responsibility of the new guy to make that first step.
Making first contact can be hard, but that goes both ways. Even as an old member I find it just as hard to introduce myself first.

/SK

 

[zobothehobo]

Yeah, the first answer is the important part to avoid real cliques imho.
As a new user you really want to get an answer on your first post, it makes the second post so much easier.
And if you managed that second post the third one is even easier and soon you're a part of the community.

What you have to accept as a new user is that the older members will have some kind of history.
You can't stand up and yell clique as soon as you don't understand some internal joke.

I do think though that it's the responsibility of the new guy to make that first step.
Making first contact can be hard, but that goes both ways. Even as an old member I find it just as hard to introduce myself first.

/SK

I agree with this.. but even if you get responses to some of your posts, it's hard to feel like you can really dive in and be a part of the group if the group doesn't look like they enjoy talking to new members. It all depends on the current members' tones and overall demeanor on the board. This is where BB is really good (at least since I've joined). I remember being a new member and being intimidated by the inside jokes (especially in the dorm). But everyone seemed to really enjoy having new members around and they wanted to make new inside jokes and memories with me. And I felt that. So it was SO much easier to join in the fun and try my best to maneuver around the inside stuff and wait until I got it.

But it does also help as a newbie if you can suck it up and push passed the inside stuff. My general rule is if you really feel you're missing out on something, ask about it. If a true clique has formed, the members will be dodgy and hesitant about answering.. but if not, they'll try their best to explain and no one will judge you.

 

[SlayerFest]

My general rule is if you really feel you're missing out on something, ask about it. If a true clique has formed, the members will be dodgy and hesitant about answering.. but if not, they'll try their best to explain and no one will judge you.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. I've had people in real life become hesitant and just refuse to explain an inside joke when I asked them to and I knew that it was time to move on. But that's kind of rare, so when that does happen, you know you've run into "those losers who can't make friends outside their tight little circle".

 

[This Year's Girl]

I think it's difficult to know where the line is sometimes. Sometimes I've been really wrapped up and excited about getting to know people in here more and have probably unintentionally excluded people just 'cause I've been so happy and bouncy about having new BB friends. It's fun to have inside jokes and a certain repetoar an all that. But I try to be careful and have conversation that are open and that everyone can take part in most of the time. But I think we all mess that up all the time, like in VH we were having a conversation about boobs last night (don't ask, lol 😀) and just a small things like that can be (doesn't have to, but it can) excluding for people who haven't got any of their own for example. 🙂 Britt pointed it out, and then I noticed it too. So I think if we all just try to be aware of this and help each other out we can get an even more inclusive enviroment here!

 

[Buffy Summers]

You can't stand up and yell clique as soon as you don't understand some internal joke.

At the same time, people need to realize how rude inside jokes are when there are others present (that goes for real life as well).

 

[BuffyElevated]

Its the same as being on the forum, if you dont join in or make an attempt to introduce yourself then you cant get upset about not being included. Sometimes there are so many people in there you cant tell who has been quiet for a while. No one is ever "excluded" but if you dont talk up you wont be noticed or it is assumed you are AFK. Same as on the forum, if you dont post then how are people supposed to know you want a discussion?

If someone's in the chat room, it's usually kinda obvious they want to, you know, chat. LOL There have been days when I've been in the chat room and someone will come in and no one even acknowledges them being there, so they leave. Most of the time, this isn't the case, but it has happened before.

I agree with this.. but even if you get responses to some of your posts, it's hard to feel like you can really dive in and be a part of the group if the group doesn't look like they enjoy talking to new members.

Yes, definitely... When you see the same 10 or 12 talking to each other or "talking over" replied by new members, it can be pretty disheartening.

I remember being new here... I felt like I'd never ever fit in because there were so many members who seemed so comfortable with each other. But because I'm not a shy person by nature, I just started butting into other people's conversations. LOL If someone was talking about something that seemed like an inside joke, I'd flat out ask what it was about and if they didn't want to explain, I just went on about my business and tried not to let it get me down, personally. However, it did make me think "Wow, rude."

 

[sk]

At the same time, people need to realize how rude inside jokes are when there are others present (that goes for real life as well).

Sure, I can imagine many cases of inside jokes being made just to show that we as a group know something that you don't. Which, of course, isn't very fair and a clear sign of clique.

But I don't think that necessary needs to be the case all the time.
As a group you're bound to have some funny memories together, well hopefully you have anyway. And I do think you should be able to reminisce, and have laugh about it without being afraid that someone who wasn't around back then will get upset and feel left out.

As long as there is an acceptance for new members and a willingness to include them in any discussions, jokes or whatever comes up it shouldn't be a problem imho.

/SK

 

[November]

But sometimes people will say something, trying to be included, and then others just ignore them. That's where the problem is.

🙂

I see that happen more on the forum than in the chat room. If you ask me, the chat is the friendliest place here - yes more friendly than the dorms.

If someone's in the chat room, it's usually kinda obvious they want to, you know, chat. LOL There have been days when I've been in the chat room and someone will come in and no one even acknowledges them being there, so they leave. Most of the time, this isn't the case, but it has happened before.

Not necessarily, there are a heap of people that idle in the chat, when I come in and Im not acknowledged I assume they are AFK. They are not being rude - they are just not there to see. Also many chat programs wont light up or tell you there is a new message unless someone does say something so how are you to know anyone is there? I doubt many of the people who are in chat just sit there and wait for company, they are usually doing other things at the same time so they need to know people have come in.

I will try and be more welcoming and inclusive in the chat - but honestly I cant see how I myself could be any more welcoming! And in my experience with the chat over they years I have never felt excluded, nor seen anyone excluded. I've seen people come in, say nothing and then leave and I can see how they might think they are being excluded but really they are not. Perhaps we are not being as inclusive as we could be ie going over the top out of their way to engage with a new person, but everyone is certainly nice and friendly.

 

[Buffy Summers]

It seems like people are taking this thread as a personal admonishment, and that's not it's purpose at all. This is speaking in general terms, not singling anyone out in particular.

🙂

 

[BananaBuffy]

A clique and a friendship group to me are two different things. Cliques are bad, friendship groups are acceptable to an extent.

Let me elaborate. So, I do not appreciate. It is one of my least favourite things in the world and I doubt that I am the only one who feels this way. It gives me a horrible feeling of not being good enough and I admit that I often doubt that I am good enough. I am a regular in the forum roleplaying community and I have this friend that always joins new roleplays and at one point she had this other group that she roleplayed with. She would always tell me that I should join the boards that her friends made and I would excitedly go along with it because I love this friend and am a little attached and loved the idea of a new RP setting.

However, whenever I joined these boards it would feel foreign. I never felt welcomed. I would post my application, get accepted, then post my shipper (which is something that is used for writing plots out between characters) and I would get one reply in the shipper at most. This happened every single time I joined one of these boards and it was because the members were not welcoming of newbies. I felt so bad in these times, useless and unwanted and that feeling really hurts. I probably shed tears over this type of thing. It was a cliquey situation and I completely understand due to it why clique-ing is bad.

On the other hand, I have been known to be cliqueish. Because of my fear of being left out or unwanted whenever I have the chance to be a part of something I jump into it. If I can find a group that I feel accepts me and I have a good relationship with I don't want it to change because I fear being pushed out. I love the feeling of being welcomed but I am always afraid that the people who welcome me will someday grow distant even for no good reason. Therefore I cling and probably become unwelcoming to new members of the group. I am part of what could be considered a rather clique-esque roleplay group myself and thinking about it now it makes me feel bad to know that I have acted in a way that shouldn't be acceptable. It is something I am truly working on.

As for the friendship group thing, I consider a friendship group to be a group of friends that is all for making the group larger and welcoming new members. This I find acceptable and something I would gladly be a part of.

Wow, that was an honest post.

 

[Dagenspear]

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. I've had people in real life become hesitant and just refuse to explain an inside joke when I asked them to and I knew that it was time to move on. But that's kind of rare, so when that does happen, you know you've run into "those losers who can't make friends outside their tight little circle".

That seems like a rather cruel and unjust judgement to make about a group just because they won't accept you. I mean, the world is basically made up of cliques, isn't it? Different classes, communities, religions, countries, teams, fan bases, democratic, republican... They're all just essentially cliques, aren't they?

 

[Buffy Summers]

I think you could have given your opinion without calling someone else "cruel" or "unjust".

 

[BuffyElevated]

That seems like a rather cruel and unjust judgement to make about a group just because they won't accept you. I mean, the world is basically made up of cliques, isn't it? Different classes, communities, religions, countries, teams, fan bases, democratic, republican... They're all just essentially cliques, aren't they?

Please use your words a little better; calling other people's opinions cruel and unjust because you don't agree doesn't really bode well with the theme of this week, does it? 🙂

I see what you're saying about all those groups, but I think it's a little broad to call a community of people a clique just because they happen to live together. I think maybe you might be misunderstanding the meaning of the word a little.

A clique is a group of people who knowingly excludes others from their group... Most of the things up there are things or clubs that people join by choice, but that are open to anyone. If you want to talk about groups that way that actually are a clique, I think maybe a sorority or fraternity would better fit the description.

 

[SlayerFest]

That seems like a rather cruel and unjust judgement to make about a group just because they won't accept you. I mean, the world is basically made up of cliques, isn't it? Different classes, communities, religions, countries, teams, fan bases, democratic, republican... They're all just essentially cliques, aren't they?

The definition of a clique is: A small group of people with shared interests, who spend time together and exclude others.

They exclude others. I hung out with mostly the same group of people for 3 years in middle school, and whenever we made new friends we'd welcome them to sit with us and our group grew. I've known people to look down on others because they're not "good enough" for their clique. That's rude and ridiculous. In my opinion 🙂. Trust me, it has nothing to do with not accepting me haha. I'd understand completely if some people didn't want to hang out with me simply because our personalities don't click, but to exclude people because they're not "good" or "cool" enough, or because they have slight cultural differences, is lame.

 

[BuffyElevated]

We had a group of girls in my high school that were like the girls in "Mean Girls". They felt like if you weren't pretty and didn't have the newest, coolest clothes, you could not hang out with them... People like that are why cliques are so bad. I never beat myself up over the fact that I wasn't "in" with them, but I know girls who did and always felt horrible that they cared so much about what other people thought of them, and that these girls could make them feel so bad about themselves.

 

[PassionBecoming]

That seems like a rather cruel and unjust judgement to make about a group just because they won't accept you. I mean, the world is basically made up of cliques, isn't it? Different classes, communities, religions, countries, teams, fan bases, democratic, republican... They're all just essentially cliques, aren't they?

Groups with similar beliefs/interests/opinions does not a clique make. The key word is "excluding".

 

[Dagenspear]

Please use your words a little better; calling other people's opinions cruel and unjust because you don't agree doesn't really bode well with the theme of this week, does it? 🙂

I see what you're saying about all those groups, but I think it's a little broad to call a community of people a clique just because they happen to live together. I think maybe you might be misunderstanding the meaning of the word a little.

A clique is a group of people who knowingly excludes others from their group... Most of the things up there are things or clubs that people join by choice, but that are open to anyone. If you want to talk about groups that way that actually are a clique, I think maybe a sorority or fraternity would better fit the description.

Communities sometimes exclude those who they don't feel reflect their society.

He was calling them "losers." That seemed pretty mean to me.

---------- Post added at 03:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:25 PM ----------

I think you could have given your opinion without calling someone else "cruel" or "unjust".

Losers isn't a very nice thing to call someone though, is it?

 

[BuffyElevated]

Communities sometimes exclude those who they don't feel reflect their society.

He was calling them "losers." That seemed pretty mean to me.

---------- Post added at 03:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:25 PM ----------


Losers isn't a very nice thing to call someone though, is it?

Please don't argue with the staff. The word 'loser' wasn't directed at a member, so it's not our job to police her words, even though- you're right- calling someone a loser isn't very nice. Being mean is for losers, and I think that was the point she was trying to make.
Not everything needs to be an argument, and you don't always need to get the last word on everything. Please remember this as you continue to post here on BB, or else your posting privileges may be revoked.