If Angel Had Never Returned...

white avenger

white avenger

white avenger
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How would you have written the series if Angel had never returned after Season 2, and who would you have given the spinoff to?
 
I dont think there would have been a spin-off. Not until the show ended at least. There was no one else that could leave to do a spin-off.
 
At that point, there wouldn't have been a spin off. No one was strong enough to carry a show on their own at that point other than Angel. Hell, the only other person in the entire verse who would have been strong enough to carry her own show needed Angel's show to get her to that level. So I don't think there would have been a spin off at all, certainly not at the point when Angel originally started.

Angel affects so many people's lives, Faith, as I just mentioned, as an example. The show would have been a completely different animal. I don't think Buffy would have had any sort of love interest in S3 if there had been no Angel. I think Scott would have still dumped her, if for no other reason than his repressed sexuality, but also because Buffy would have still be harboring her love for Angel and her guilt over killing him. Faith never would have come back from the edge, because there would have been no one to show her any sort of compassion. It's possible that Faith would have been brought in as the Big Bad for S4, possibly taking the place of The Initiative completely, or at the very least, bumping Adam. Maybe she would have been the one to be caught and experimented on. You know Maggie Walsh wanted to take Buffy apart, and not in a fun way.
 
Lyri said:
At that point, there wouldn't have been a spin off. No one was strong enough to carry a show on their own at that point other than Angel. Hell, the only other person in the entire verse who would have been strong enough to carry her own show needed Angel's show to get her to that level. So I don't think there would have been a spin off at all, certainly not at the point when Angel originally started.

Angel affects so many people's lives, Faith, as I just mentioned, as an example. The show would have been a completely different animal. I don't think Buffy would have had any sort of love interest in S3 if there had been no Angel. I think Scott would have still dumped her, if for no other reason than his repressed sexuality, but also because Buffy would have still be harboring her love for Angel and her guilt over killing him. Faith never would have come back from the edge, because there would have been no one to show her any sort of compassion. It's possible that Faith would have been brought in as the Big Bad for S4, possibly taking the place of The Initiative completely, or at the very least, bumping Adam. Maybe she would have been the one to be caught and experimented on. You know Maggie Walsh wanted to take Buffy apart, and not in a fun way.
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Faith is one of the main characters that I had in mind as being affected, along with both Cordy and Wes, both of whose stories would have been completely different if told in any way whatsoever. I have my doubts that Faith would have ever recovered from her coma, thereby simply avoiding the need to introduce yet another new Slayer.

As for the spinoff, the question should have been, "If there had been one, who would get the spinoff," and, I agree, no one on the show at that time could have carried a series on their own.
 
white avenger said:
Faith is one of the main characters that I had in mind as being affected, along with both Cordy and Wes, both of whose stories would have been completely different if told in any way whatsoever. I have my doubts that Faith would have ever recovered from her coma, thereby simply avoiding the need to introduce yet another new Slayer.
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I don't think they could have left Faith in a coma indefinitely. It's sloppy writing, they would have had to tie that up some way - either reforming her or killing her off.

And maybe killing her off would have landed Buffy with a younger, innocent girl who was suddenly Chosen as the Slayer, barely out of her teens with no knowledge of the world she's now a part off, and who came ready made with a prophecy about being the Key to opening a cross-dimensional portal and Buffy would have suddenly realized at the very last second that, since they BOTH held the power of the Slayer, she could sacrifice herself in this young, innocent girl's place and close the portal.

Makes about as much sense as the original did.
 
Lyri said:
I don't think they could have left Faith in a coma indefinitely. It's sloppy writing, they would have had to tie that up some way - either reforming her or killing her off.
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As far as any kind of realism would go (Buffyverse realism, that is) I never saw just why the Watchers' counsel allowed Faith to stay alive while in a coma in the first place, since it was pretty evident that the agents sent after her in Season 4 were a wet team, plain and simple. A simple hypo of air into one of comatose Faith's veins, and they would have had a new, almost certainly more tractable Slayer to take her place. Instead, they wait until she's conscious and active before coming after her. Just never made any sense to me, not that I wouldn't have missed Faith.
 
If Angel hadn't returned the ripple effect would've been that 'Revelations' never happens. Buffy and Faith don't split because there's no 'misunderstanding fight'. So then Faith stays close to the Scoobies instead of shutting them out and so if/when Faith kills Finch everybody is in a better position to help Faith trust in other people.

Then at the end of S3 it's Faith who gets the spinoff if there's one in the offing- Joss has said that he was impressed with Eliza from the very start. 🙂
 
It wasn't really the rift in 'Revelations' that caused the problems between Faith and Buffy - it was Faith's own lack of self-esteem that made her push the Scoobies away. Faith and Buffy had already grown closer by the time she killed Finch, and it was Faith's own doubt that had her thinking that she couldn't trust them not to turn her in. She'd lost everyone in her life up to that point, she'd been abandoned by her parents and her Watcher was killed - she couldn't stand to lose anymore and this time it would have been by her own hand. Without Angel, that self-doubt only gets worse and worse. There's no one to take her side unconditionally. Even when Faith was with the Mayor, Angel always saw something in her that no one else did - it was why he was able to eventually help her. Without that support, Faith just gets darker and darker.
 
But it was Revelations that meant that Faith stopped hanging around with The Scoobies- Giles, Willow and Xander. She leaves them alone, avoids them and they do likewise. Even after 'Amends' all we see is Faith just maintaining her ties with Buffy, no one else.

And it's my belief that without that blip from 'Revelations' to 'Amends' we would've had more Buffy and Faith friendship- they were pretty chummy before Mrs. Post showed up- and Faith would've had mor reasons to trust Buffy when Buffy says 'lets both go and tell Giles about this huge, horrible mistake.'

It wasn't all just Angel, Angel could reach Faith in 'Consequences' not only because he knew what she going through, but also because he hadn't 'let her down' yet, hadn't, in her eyes, betrayed that trust. He was a fresh perspective.
Faith never got over the feeling in 'Revelations' that she was the 'bad guy', the screw-up, the chump who got played by Buffy and her friends and that there was no real closeness there, nothing that she needed. Without that event happening (which was primarily caused by Angel's presence and Xander's reaction to that presence) the bonds of frindship would've been much stronger when 'Bad Girls rolled' along.
Who knows, perhaps Buffy's influence would've softened Faith's recklessness over time. 🙂
 
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