If Angel had stayed...

[Andrew2080]

Finished viewing season 3, and Angel leaving Buffy... It feels like if Edward would have left Bella in Twilight. I think the show lost a lot with the strong love story of Buffy and Angel broken. Instead Buffy is on and off with Spike for 4 seasons. Spike is cool but does he ever become more than a flirty friend to Buffy.

They probably made more money with both Buffy and Angel show, but I think seasons 2 / 3 are the best thanks to Angel.

Never true happiness? If they could prevent all those apocalypses Im sure they could have come up with a spell to fix Angels no-happy-curse too, of course in the most dramatic way...

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[Ripper666]

No I was sad. But I think it was the only way to open new doors for new Buffy-relationships. It was ok but a really sad moment for me, when Angel left the show!

 

[Xin Rong]

I found Angel quite boring in Buffy... he was a much better character in his own show and for me Angel is the better show so I am glad that he left, although the whole spuffy and riley storylines did irritate me a lot.

 

[dexeded]

Buffy/Angel for 7 seasons straight would've gotten old. Although I admit I'm biased since I'm not exactly pro-Bangel. But I much prefer Angel in his own series; he's just a cardboard cutout sidekick in BtVS.

 

[Cheese Slices]

I think it would've ruined the show if he had stayed longer. Season 3 clearly demonstrates that his relationship with Buffy was getting nowhere, it was time for him to leave.
Besides, we wouldn't have had all the season 5/6/7 awesomeness. 🙂

 

[brinkster130]

If Angel had stayed on Buffy for all seven season his character certainly would have changed and stepped out of the boyfriend role we were use to seeing him in. I highly doubt we would of had numerous seasons with the couple happy and together. I do wonder what direction Joss would have taken his character.

Finished viewing season 3, and Angel leaving Buffy... It feels like if Edward would have left Bella in Twilight. I think the show lost a lot with the strong love story of Buffy and Angel broken. Instead Buffy is on and off with Spike for 4 seasons. Spike is cool but does he ever become more than a flirty friend to Buffy.

I was sad too, but I think they both needed some time apart to grow and focus on themselves. I do still hope for the two of them to reunite.

They probably made more money with both Buffy and Angel show, but I think seasons 2 / 3 are the best thanks to Angel.

Never true happiness? If they could prevent all those apocalypses Im sure they could have come up with a spell to fix Angels no-happy-curse too, of course in the most dramatic way...

I agree. Angel is on of my favorite characters so I do miss him in the later seasons; but I really really loved the show Angel.

 

[YummySushiPJs]

I was very sad indeed... for Buffy. But personally I was glad to see the back of him. I think he had been explored all that he could be as a character within "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and quite rightly was moved into a show of his own where he could be explored more as a character in his own right.

I agree with Cheese Slices that season 3 showed him and Buffy were over and if they weren't going round in circles then Angel was just being a spare part. Neither of which is great viewing.

 

[Raki]

I think it would've ruined the show if he had stayed longer. Season 3 clearly demonstrates that his relationship with Buffy was getting nowhere, it was time for him to leave.

I don't agree with this entirely. I don't think their relationship was going nowhere - in fact, I wouldn't love Bangel half as much without watching her gently rebuild her trust in Angel over the course of S3. Sure, Buffy was always going to be centre-stage on the show, but you did get to see a different side of Angel.

One way or another, his character would have to develop very differently if he stayed on BtVS - for one thing, the other Scoobies rarely interacted with him in any meaningful way in seasons 1, 2 and 3, making him quite alienated outside of his relationship with Buffy and limiting the directions he could evolve in. It would have been interesting to see the writers tackle things like that.

That being said, I think it was a good decision narratively. Despite the pain it caused, I really admired Angel's selflessness in leaving, especially given that it was a worse deal for him. Plus, he was a great character and he deserved his own show. I like to imagine that Buffy rekindles her relationship with Angel again someday, when he's achieved whatever redemption he needs in order to feel like he can make her happy.

 

[white avenger]

I first started watching Buffy in Season 3, then caught up with the show in syndication, so my prospective is somewhat different that a fan who had been watching from Season 1, Episode 1, all first run. Having said that...

I can't really see any way that Angel could have stayed in Sunnydale and ever developed beyond being, at the best, Buffy's sidekick, the Robin to her Batman. That was what he was by the end of Season 1, and that's pretty much what he still was when he left. The only way that he could grow and evolve was to get out of her shadow. Plus, their non-relationship could only go on for so long before people began to get bored and stop watching. Buffy and Angel shared a sweet, if tragic, adolescent romance, but adolescence only lasts for a certain amount of time, then people have to grow up. The two characters, in order to grow and evolve, had to go their separate ways.

Plus, if Angel had never left Sunnydale, we would never have seen Wesley evolve into Wes, Cordelia evolve into Cordy, and there would never have been Gunn, Lorne, Fred (and Illyria), Connor, Lindsey...

Can anyone honestly say that we didn't gain far more by moving Angel out of Sunnydale than we lost?

(And see, Bagels, I didn't mention "you know who" even once, no matter how important I might personally feel that he was to Buffy's story)

 

[Cheese Slices]

I don't agree with this entirely. I don't think their relationship was going nowhere - in fact, I wouldn't love Bangel half as much without watching her gently rebuild her trust in Angel over the course of S3. Sure, Buffy was always going to be centre-stage on the show, but you did get to see a different side of Angel.

One way or another, his character would have to develop very differently if he stayed on BtVS - for one thing, the other Scoobies rarely interacted with him in any meaningful way in seasons 1, 2 and 3, making him quite alienated outside of his relationship with Buffy and limiting the directions he could evolve in. It would have been interesting to see the writers tackle things like that.

That being said, I think it was a good decision narratively. Despite the pain it caused, I really admired Angel's selflessness in leaving, especially given that it was a worse deal for him. Plus, he was a great character and he deserved his own show. I like to imagine that Buffy rekindles her relationship with Angel again someday, when he's achieved whatever redemption he needs in order to feel like he can make her happy.

Honestly, I don't think Btvs!Angel is that interesting, he kind of doesn't fit. He had 3 seasons to be developed, and never was (or just a little). On top of that, they made it clear by season 3 that he and Buffy couldn't be together, and could never be friends either: every main characters on Btvs are either Buffy's love interests or her friends, and Angel can be neither, so I don't see what would've been his place in this.
Really, I'm glad he had his own show so I could appreciate him a lot more.

 

[white avenger]

Honestly, I don't think Btvs!Angel is that interesting, he kind of doesn't fit. He had 3 seasons to be developed, and never was (or just a little).

And that is the main reason why it was imperative that Angel leave Sunnydale. Throughout the 3 years that he was there, as well as all of the flashbacks that we see once Angel gets his soul, he is pretty much portrayed as a recluse, never interacting with anyone unless it was unavoidable. Doyle and Cordy, and later Wes, Fred, and Gunn, pretty much dragged him out into the world of people by force. If he had stayed there in Sunnydale, Angel would almost certainly have continued on as he had for his first 3 years there, interacting with Buffy, but otherwise staying to himself. Giles didn't fully trust him after it was discovered just how easy it was to bring Angelus back, Xander never liked him, and Willow was never what could be called particularly friendly either.

In Sunnydale, Angel had Buffy, who he could never fully trust himself alone with, and no one else. He was either out fighting, killing demons, sitting alone in the dark, brooding over his past sins and atrocities, or holding himself in rigid control whenever he was around Buffy. In LA, he still spent way too much time brooding, but, directly because of his coworkers, he at last began to move back into the real world, interact with people, and actually make friends, none of which he ever did before coming there.

 

[Raki]

Can anyone honestly say that we didn't gain far more by moving Angel out of Sunnydale than we lost?

See, I don't think this question is all that fair since we don't know what we would have "gained" or "lost" from having him stay. I'll reiterate that I think that having him leave was a very good decision because, while Buffy was always the lynchpin of her own show, it gave her more independence as a character after three seasons with only one significant love interest, and meanwhile, Angel's character successfully developed independent of Buffy, but that doesn't mean it was the only viable option.

The fact is that Whedon and co. were planning to write him out and send him to his own show before S3 even started. How is even possible to know where the writers would have taken the character in the long-term, if they were only working within the confines of BtVS? The only reason it was written so that he would leave was because they wanted to take the story in that direction, and give Angel his own show. Both of us have pointed out correctly that Angel's development was limited as long as his meaningful interaction with other characters was focused principally on Buffy. He couldn't have stayed in exactly the same role for the rest of the series, as he wouldn't have remained compelling even for viewers like myself who did love the guy in seasons 1, 2 and 3. That much is obvious, but it doesn't mean he couldn't be developed in an effective way on BtVS.

It's not like it's a big deal, since I do think they made a good call in having him leave - they made it realistic for the characters, we wouldn't have a lot of my favourite moments from BtVS seasons 4/5/6/7, and I really love AtS too, so...whatever. I just think there's way too much established post-S3 world-building to make a realistic judgement on what the actual opportunity cost of pulling Angel out of BtVS was, when all we can do is speculate about what would have been a totally different show - that is, unless you feel so strongly about the character that nothing could be better/worse than having him leave. I mean, I personally never thought I would love BtVS quite as much without Angel on my first viewing, but I did.

 

[Sweet J]

We could have had Angel turn more introverted and become a rogue vigilante within Sunnydale, With possible Buffy and Angel crossing paths, teaming up, or fighting from time to time with different views on who should be killed...it might have worked out better in my opinion than two seperate shows.

 

[LadyRavena69]

I think if Angel had stayed, then realism of BtVS would have started to fade. Angel was her first love and it makes since that he would not be her last. She needed to experience other new relationships.

 

[Angel6]

Angelus was the best villain on the show! Lets not forget that. I think Angel was awesome in season 2 of buffy, just a tremendous character. I am glad that Angel happened, I just wish that Sarah Michelle Gellar hadnt refused to go over to Angel for the girl in question (which by the way they had to hastily write, because they couldnt get her!!)

 

[rentheadperson]

Angelus was the best villain on the show! Lets not forget that. I think Angel was awesome in season 2 of buffy, just a tremendous character. I am glad that Angel happened, I just wish that Sarah Michelle Gellar hadnt refused to go over to Angel for the girl in question (which by the way they had to hastily write, because they couldnt get her!!)

I agree! I loved Angelus as a villain. He was just so diabolical and obsessive.

I also think that they could have done a lot more with the Buffy/Angel plot line had they decided to have Angel stay. Not so much as a couple; we all know that relationship wasn't going to go anywhere in the long run. But they could have had Angel break up with Buffy and keep his distance for a while to let her move on with her life, but still stay in Sunnydale and fight evil there. And eventually, Buffy and Angel could have remained friends. Yes, their relationship was all about the fire and passion and the forbidden love, but I feel that there was also a respect and trust there that eventually would have led to a deep, meaningful friendship between them, once they had moved on enough emotionally to handle JUST being friends.

However, I do understand why they had to have him leave. Because my scenario is not realistic at all. 😛

 

[AmelRIOT]

Angel should of stayed in Buffy 🙂 them two get married and lived happily ever after and Faith gets her own show with Wes, Cordy, Gunn and Fred being her sidekicks 😉 haha just being crazy 😛

 

[white avenger]

By having Angel leave Sunnydale, Joss was able to introduce new characters and explore new possibilities, things that there just wasn't enough time and space to do in a single show. Without Angel's series, Wesley, Cordy, Fred, Gunn, Lorne, Lindsey, and all of the other characters associated with his show simply couldn't have come into being and evolved in the way that they did.