If Angelus Had Gotten The Chip

[white avenger]

Lets assume for the sake of this discussion that Spike had never returned to Sunnydale in Season 4, and Angel hadn't left town. Somehow, other spell giving him a soul id broken, and Angelus is the vampire who gets the chip. From Season 4 through Season 7, could you see Angelus evolving from monster with a muzzle to hero the way that Spike did, or do you think that he would be just too evil and too determined to stay that way to ever change?

As for me, I really can't see the chips being much more than a minor inconvenience for Angelus, especially once he learned that he could still kill anything without a soul. He would have minions harvesting fresh, hot, human blood for him, and with his devious, scheming mind, it would be like having Ethan Raines in permanent residence in Sunnydale for 4 years.

 

[RogueDemonHunter]

Well, when Spike got the chip, he tried to get it out by helping Adam at the end of season 4. I think Angelus would have taken Adam down if he didn't agree to remove the chip like he promised.

Otherwise, I think what White Avenger said is pretty accurate.

---------- Post added at 10:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 PM ----------

He also would have carried out Adam's tasks betteer than Spike did.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

The fact that Angelus had not a stitch of humanity in him, (and I'm going by how he acted and what he did as Angelus, not merely by what the Judge said), I just can't believe that he'd have turned out the same way Spike did. But I think this is the strongest indication:

Spike fell in love with Buffy seemingly out of nowhere, while chipped and without a soul. Angelus's counterpart Angel had already fallen in love with Buffy, yet his powerful and transcendent love didn't make it into the heart of the demon inside and Angelus obsessed over torturing and killing her. In other words: as a soulless demon Spike could feel something for someone that made him try to better himself while Angelus wanted only to kill despite the "head start" he arguably would have had, in loving Buffy. Without all of that as a motivation, why would Angelus have evolved into anything but a monster?

Love, really, is what motivated Spike to transform. At first he tried plotting against the scoobies so that he could continue to feel the satisfaction of harming others without physically hurting them. That wasn't fulfilling. Why? Before he could realize what was going on, he was in love. And then came the journey toward bettering himself one step at a time, according to Buffy's world and Buffy's judgement, (since he didn't know better himself.) In order for Angelus to do any of that, he'd have had to feel something true and meaningful for someone who inspired him to try to be good. But Angelus never truly felt love as a demon; not even with Darla, (something he comes to terms with when he is ensouled). Considering that Spike's story of transformation from monster to hero is very much ruled by love, I think this is the strongest evidence we have that Angelus wouldn't have transformed.

Would he have fought against the pain? Maybe. He seemed to really enjoy that. But ultimately I think he would have become some sort of ultimate evil mastermind--he'd have been able to fulfill his desire for torture and mind games even if he couldn't inflict the damage himself. And I don't see what in the world, (if not love), would have gotten him to change. He'd probably stake himself before he'd even start to mimic one of the good guys.

 

[The Scourge]

Angelus was never solely about the violence; he got off on the knowledge that he had the power to utterly destroy people. The chip would stop him from physically hurting humans. but his skills at manipulation are unparalleled. He'd eventually be able to beat the chip somehow or get it removed, but I don't think having it would make him any less dangerous.

He definitely wouldn't become pathetically domesticated the way Spike did. *Laughs at the image of Angelus living in Xander's basement*

 

[SlayerFest]

As for me, I really can't see the chips being much more than a minor inconvenience for Angelus, especially once he learned that he could still kill anything without a soul. He would have minions harvesting fresh, hot, human blood for him, and with his devious, scheming mind, it would be like having Ethan Raines in permanent residence in Sunnydale for 4 years.

I agree. I've thought about this before and...I just can't see Angelus turning into some weak, rabid dog with a shock collar. I think that he was more cunning than Spike to be honest. I mean, he's a master manipulator. I feel like the main reason why Spike became...domesticated, is because the writers wanted him to become "one of the gang" in a way. Everyone loves Spike (okay, not true, but clearly a lot of people do 😉) and I'm glad that he got his chip, even though it was pretty ridiculous. It kind of reminds me of something my film professor often says when ideas or actions made by the characters come out of thin air..."writer says rock" (meaning that a random rock can't just fall out of thin air and smack one of the characters on the head simply because it's convenient). Sure, the chip played into the whole initiative storyline, but we all know why it really happened.

---------- Post added at 11:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 PM ----------

Angelus was never solely about the violence; he got off on the knowledge that he had the power to utterly destroy people. The chip would stop him from physically hurting humans. but his skills at manipulation are unparalleled. He'd eventually be able to beat the chip somehow or get it removed, but I don't think having it would make him any less dangerous.

He definitely wouldn't become pathetically domesticated the way Spike did. *Laughs at the image of Angelus living in Xander's basement*

Hahah I agree with this completely...the image of him in Xander's basement is indeed hilarious.