If Buffy dies another is called! WRONG!

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nerd4hire said:
We'll need a link on that.
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Well don't mean to sound rude here but you will have to find the article for yourself because i'm damned if i know where it was, may not have even been online with the amount of magazines i read too.

The article was certainly in relation to season seven and the comment was in direct response to a question on a subject very similar to this thread. It wasn't Joss, at least not in the article i read, but it was one of the male writers so i'm assuming Fury, if not Bell.

Just wanted to say that whilst i appreciate that it's always nice to read the article for yourself, if i post something on here then it is fact. If you get to know me one thing you will definately find out is that i hate lies and false information, whether it be about my favourite shows, the real lives of the stars of those shows, or my favourite bands, musicians, whatever.

If i post something here or anywhere then i read it and it is accurate, not rumour or speculation, just the facts. I only ever pass on information that i know to be accurate, simply because i don't want to be a part of spreading fictional "facts".

Just so you know for the future! 😉
 
that and the fact that as i've noticed, many people here based their opinion on what somebody else wrote/said, i didn't exactly see a direct link to the quote in every single one of those posts...
 
Wicca said:
that and the fact that as i've noticed, many people here based their opinion on what somebody else wrote/said, i didn't exactly see a direct link to the quote in every single one of those posts...
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True, but the Fury quote, if it exists is the one that matters. It will call into question everything I'm about to put forward, if as I said it exists, and your intrepretation of what you tell me you remember is exact and in context.

Here's the thing. My interpretation of my own veracity might even be as high as that of you guys on yours, but I'm going to tell you in all honesty there have been occasions when I've misinterpreted stuff.

Also there's a lot of misinformation out there. One thing that pops into mind is the fan interpretation of remarks at conventions such as you see at Slayerverse.de. Those things have been proven incorrect over and over again by time.

Also I have to tell you I am a little skeptical, and here's why. I've been having this discussion on whether or not the slayer line activation changes slayers after Season 6 since S-7 was being broadcast live. I've been having it with some serious Buffologists here. 🙂 They weren't allergic to Google, and they were frequent visitors at all Buffy news sites. This is the first I've heard of this S-7 Fury quote. Reason tells me if it existed in a reliable format, someone would have mentioned it by now.

So here's what I propose. I'm going to go forward and explain the other side of the arguement to the opinion Faith and only Faith can pass on the slayer line in Season 7.

I concede that if this Fury quote actually exists in a reliable format, and your interpretation of it is correct, it might possibly call into question what I put forward. Nevertheless I still think Season 7 itself quite clearly states the rules of the activation of the slayer line change after the Bargaining.

So...would you like me to begin?
 
i think in the end of the day, we all misinterpret things in the slayerverse as i'd like to think of it as a mystery we can never quite solve, only bring up various ideas. which is why i only truly refer to as "facts" to things said by joss and the other people that actually "matter" in the slayerverse.
i know that jason would not say something unless he has a good reason too, and just as he said, if you knew him you'd know that too. but in the end of the day, it's your right to question. lol you can google it if you want, it might turn up 😉
 
Only Faith can pass the slayer line.Not Buffy...But this was then.Faith was the only one who could activate a slayer, well that's what the gang belived at first.
Buffy died, and Kendra was called.Kendra held the slayerline, but Buffy was revived.Then Kendra died, and the power to activate another slayer, was given to Faith, the last slayer called normally.But Buffy was revived by Willow, and reinserted to the slayerline, mystically nor normally.So now both Buffy and Faith can activate another slayer.When the Shadowmen told Buffy that she was the Hellmouth's last guardian, they were telling the truth.When Buffy was reinserted, for some reason, to the line, she joined, and was the last to join.This is why the shadowmen said she was the last guardian, as in the last to be added.The First was mad that Buffy was reinserted to the line, so he went psycho and started killing potentials, to end the slayerline.Buffy decided to prove the shadowmen wrong, by using the esscence of her power, (which was shared by slayers before her) to transfer the power to all the potentials...So now there are millions of slayers.This is my theory.If you disagree with something, please reply.
 
To be quite honest there was very little interpretation neccessary, it was all quite straight forward.

The interview clearly pointed out that whilst Buffy's comments about her death activating the next potential slayer were not accurate (as Faith was now the "activating" slayer) it simply wasn't worth clarifying that fact every single time the subject was brought up during season seven. If you knew about the slayerline thing then you didn't need it explained again and again and if you didn't know then all it would do would cause unneccessary confusion. True for the potentials and also true for newer viewers.

I am surprised that, if you really have had this discussion many times before, this hasn't been established to you. The fact that Buffy has now fulfilled her place in the slayerline has been a topic that i've heard comments about from Joss himself, as well as many other writers. The only reason i mentioned this specific article was because it directly related to this particular topic, that being what was talked about in season seven.

But ultimately you can believe what you want to believe. I may be unwilling to spread lies but i can't force anyone to believe what i say, and to be honest i don't care all that much! 😉
 
Cool. It's good you don't care. It allows me to be brutally honest, and tell you you're right. I don't believe it.

I don't believe it until I see it, and I don't expect to see it

I just refuse to believe that the wise sage I know as Fury would say something as half-witted as:

Quote

If you knew about the slayerline thing then you didn't need it explained again and again and if you didn't know then all it would do would cause unneccessary confusion. True for the potentials and also true for newer viewers.

Of course the activation of the slayer line and how it passes on matters. It matters and it needs to be explained whenever something contradicts what we believe we know. Knowing the intricacies of the slayer line is central to understanding the mythology of the series. When Season 7 says the slayer line now passes through Buffy, it needs to be explained, or nothing makes sense. Season 7 is all about the disruption in the slayer line.

I have to believe that somewhere between Fury's mouth and your ear a moron intervened.

My best guess is it was one of those cases where a fan claimed he heard something at a convention.

But enough of this nonsense. It can't be produced. I haven't heard of it. I can't find it with a Google. I can't believe it until I see it. Let's move on.

First of all why is there reason to believe the slayer line passes through Buffy in Season 7?

Well as has been stated before Buffy says it does when she tells the potentials she will have to die before one of them becomes the slayer.

This wouldn't mean much if she was the only one saying it. We could say she's just trying to get the potentials to pay attention, or some such thing.

Buffy isn't the only one saying it though.

Dawn says it to Anya, Willow and Xander in Potential:

"Dawn is struck by another heavy thought, and it drives her down into a chair again.

DAWN
She has to die. I mean, if I ever
was the Slayer it would mean she died.

ANYA
Yes, it's like being the pope that
way. Only you don't have be some old
Catholic."

None of the Scoobs challenge that statement by Dawn.

In Dirty Girls Caleb refers to Buffy as something like the one, the only accept no substitutes slayer. He refers to Faith as "the other one".

In Showtime Beljoxa's eye suggests there is a "disruption in the Slayer Line" that has changed things, although the exact thing that has been changed is never precisely determined for us.

He does say "The Slayer" is repsonsible though.

[/i]GILES
If The First has been around for all time, then why hasn't it attempted something like this before? Why now?

BELJOXA'S EYE
The opportunity has only recently presented itself.

GILES
Opportunity?

BELJOXA'S EYE
The mystical forces surrounding the chosen line have become irrevocably altered, become unstable, vulnerable.

ANYA
Something The First did?

BELJOXA'S EYE
The First Evil did not cause the disruption, only seized upon it to extinguish the lives of the chosen forever.

GILES
Then what has caused the disruption? What"”what is responsible for letting this happen?

BELJOXA'S EYE
The slayer.[/i]

Giles and Anya make it clear later Beljoxa's Eye was referring to Buffy as The Slayer

GILES
Are you all right?

ANYA
(limping) Yeah, I just"”I don't understand how Buffy's death mucked up the whole slayer mojo. You know, it's not like she hasn't died before.

GILES
It's not because she died. The Beljoxa's Eye was quite clear about that in its enigmatic way. It's because she lives. Again. Buffy's not responsible for that.

ANYA
Oh. Oh. Willow and me and Xander and Tara. We're the ones who brought Buffy back. We're"”we're the reason The First is here, the reason those girls were murdered. No, it's our fault. The would would've been better off if Buffy had just stayed dead. (walks off)


Most conclusively though The First as Caleb says the slayer line passes through Buffy in Chosen.

CALEB/FIRST
'Cause he can't help you. Nor Faith,
nor your friends... certainly not
your little wannaslay brigade. None
of those girlies will ever know real
power unless you're dead.

Joss Whedon wrote Chosen. He knows who the slayer line passes through. He says right here, it's Buffy.

Season 7 clearly says if Buffy dies another slayer is called.

What we don't know is how long this has been in effect, and does it also affect the slayer line passing through Faith. In Season 7 the line may pass through both slayers, but based on what the text offers us in S-7 it seems difficult if not impossible to say the line does not now run at least through Buffy.
 
C
Cordelia
[No message]
Pagan:

Do you not think that "The Gift" or "Villians" did anything to the slayerline?

One of these events changed the slayerline drastically. Thus Buffy retaining the power to activate another slayer.

Whether you want to believe it or not, it is true.

The script is key and it's words are law. Not something someone might have heard at a convention or something someone overheard by Marti at the ice cream shop.

Season 7 clearly states that Buffy will call another slayer. Which is most probably why the First is able to attack the potentials. Duh huh.
 
yes that's true, and i'm the first person tosay it - what fact is only cannon. *but* we were given judgement to understand that not every word in cannon is set in stone, if it were, buffy's game really would have been in cuernavaca during "helpless". over-the-top example, but it gets the point across.
nerd4hire, first of all, you might want to reread pagan's quote to so much as understand he didn't quote david directly so obviously david didn't say that. and the general point istrue. buffy is not a show meant for newbies. if you get into btvs not from the start, you either watch *all* the episodes you missed first and foremost or don't bother at all. you have to know your mythology or you cannot call yourself a fan. and those who know the slayerverse mythology don't need to be constantly reminded of it because they've been there.
as for believing or not believing, it's a wise move to be skeptical until you have prove, but dismissing something another person says in an argument without an actual explanation aside from "i don't believe it" is not only not so wise, but not exactly polite either.
 
Thanks for attempting to clear that up honey but i do believe you will be wasting your time just as much as i was wasting mine!

As you said i never made any suggestion that i was directly quoting David Fury and the "half-witted" comment (so coming back to that soon) was simply my attempt to get across the general meaning of his words in as little time and effort as possible.

Therefore, not a direct quote, not anything like word for word, just my, clearly limited, understanding of them.

See thing about me is that i don't come on these boards with anything to prove. I know that what i say is true, i know that because i only care about the truth in these things. I don't care about my theory on what happened with the slayer line, i certainly don't care about any other fans. However i do care about what the writers say.

Now far be it from me to question the obvious authority of some of the people round here when it comes to canon over the writers but for the last time ... one slayer gets one activation! That hasn't been in dispute since season six! This wasn't mentioned in one article, it wasn't mentioned in two, there are countless references to Joss and other ME'ers attempting to clarify why Buffy's death in the Gift didn't call another slayer. She had played her part with the activation of Kendra. That is the way it works. Sorry to burst all your bubbles here but that is it. Now that i'm certain a little Googling will prove to you, not going to do it for you though because, again, i don't care and seeing as i already know it to be true i got nothing to prove to myself.

Buffy's flatline in Villains also has no relevance as, again, she had done her part.

The script is key, absolutely, but the writers write the scripts so i'd say that their interpretation is pretty solid also. Did it ever occur to you that nobody within the fictional world of Buffy has ever actually determined that Buffy's death will no longer activate another slayer. The words have never been spoken on the show so it is more than likely that Buffy, Faith, even Giles, have no idea about the specifics because the whole having two slayers deal was totally new ground to them. Unless they specifically went out of their way to prove the point all they can do is assume. In this case Buffy is working on the assumption that her death will still activate a new slayer. She may as well because she has no way of knowing that it won't and it makes things easier to explain to the potentials. None of the characters know any better.

However ...

In the real world you have the writers. The ones who write the stories and make up the mythology. They know exactly what is true and what is not true. Surely if they decide that Buffy has fulfilled her role in the slayer line then that supercedes anything Giles or Buffy might guess at within the show? The characters can only guess at what Buffy's death will now do having no real evidence presented to them within the shows reality, the writers actually know because they get to decide it!

Just because it has never been specifically clarified within the dialogue of the series and just because Buffy may not know exactly what her death will bring about doesn't change the fact that Joss decided exactly what her future death would result in a long time ago. Absolutely nothing!

Not my theory, his! Blah!

Mind you, all this discussion become completely irrelevant once you take into account that all the rules changed in Chosen. Now that all potentials are slayers none of their deaths will currently mean a thing because there is no one left to activate. So where does that fit in to any activation theories previously established? Guess it will be a long time before you get the clarification on that little issue huh?

Oh and the half-witted comment, be appreciated if you actually had a clue about who you were talking to before you started judging my intellect, seeing as how the words you commented on were mine! Thanks 🙂
 
I found this, a David Fury fansite, http://www.davidfury.net/press.html is the interviews page if someone wants to go through them.

Anyway, thinking about it, the slayer mythology is not clear. For one it is Cordelia who states the slayer line now runs through Faith (well the closest to, she says about why Kendra and Faith was called but cant each living Slayer's death make another appear? We're never told to the contrary) and while the Watchers Council is (probably) the biggest source of knowledge on the Slayer they still no nothing about two slayers living together, they have never had to so its all guess work really. And Buffy's death could of called another but when she was bought back to life maybe "uncalled" the new Slayer, we know the line was messed up by her ressurection, but its delightfully amigious.
 
C
Cordelia
Great insight :D
Pagan-

Another way Nerd4Hire and I can prove you wrong:

Listen to the dialogue of the First Evil during Season 7!

We have had this discussion countless times and we have used the script to prove our point.

The First Evil clearly says in Chosen that Buffy activates another Slayer. And since the First Evil has been around since the dawn of time, I think it knows a bit or two about the Slayerline and who calls who.

CALEB/FIRST
(rolls eyes) Then why aren't you asleep in your dead lover's arms? (looks over at Spike) 'Cause he can't help you. Nor Faith, nor your friends, certainly not your wanna-slay brigade. None of those girlies will ever know real power unless you're dead. You know the drill: (morphs into Buffy's form)

BUFFY/FIRST
Into every generation, a slayer is born. One girl in all the world. She alone will have the strength and skill to"” There's that word again. What you are. How you'll die. Alone. Where's your snappy comeback?

BUFFY
You're right.

BUFFY/FIRST
Hmm. Not your best.

And to also quote another character in Chosen, "It's what it is, yo."

I'm spent.
 
right. now we're relying on quotes from the very being whose only power lies in mind-games and tricks.
so how exactly does that prove him wrong?
 
Wicca said:
right. now we're relying on quotes from the very being whose only power lies in mind-games and tricks.
so how exactly does that prove him wrong?
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Although the First Evil may be well evil and stuff, I think it is a pretty reliable source since it practically knows all and was able to see the disruption in the slayerline.

How does it prove him wrong?

It clearly states that Buffy's death activates another Chosen One!!!!
 
it doesn't state anything. the words of the first come to trick the characters and to weaken them with mind games, because that's his only power and we've been givemn to understand that time and time again. to say something like that to buffy at a time like this was a clear attempt to weaken her.
it does not prove anything. if you're going to insist that does, well by all means - in this case, everything any form of the first ever said during the show is true. sorry but no half ways here. i'd say we're back to square one.
 
Why would The First want to trick Buffy into thinking if she dies another Slayer is called, whats the benefit?
 
The first seized its opportunity after the slayerline became change beyond repair...So why didn't it seize after Buffy died the first time in Prophecy Girl? Because at that point the line ran through Kendra then Faith. After Buffy died and Faith died, the line would resume to being held by only one girl at a time. The line became irrecovably changed when Buffy was REINSERTED into the slayerline and there would forever be two slayers...
 
Xander said:
Why would The First want to trick Buffy into thinking if she dies another Slayer is called, whats the benefit?
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So true.

It has no benefits what so ever.

What about all the things Caleb and the First talked about privately. About how Buffy was the true Slayer and blah blah.

Is the First trying to fill Caleb's head with nonsense too?

OMG, that is the First's plan to confuse everyone! Screw world domination, lets just go tell the slayer she calls another potential and somehow the world will fall into chaos.

Um, how about no.

And I see how that comment in NO way weakens her or empowers her.

Its funny how people can believe the word's of other writers or even scripts that were not written by Joss. But when a script comes along that proves something and is written by the one person who dictates the Buffyverse, they easily dismiss it.
 
he didn't want to trick her into thinking that, that really wasn't the point because as you said - there is no point. death and loneliness is the loss of hope and strength. to tell buffy she's going to die alone, no matter what she does, that everything she's been working for has been for nothing because there is no actual power that could rise against him and the only power that is there is within her - that's aiming directly at her worst nightmares - that she is nothing but a slayer.
no love, no friends, no hope. what's left?

Slayer said:
OMG, that is the First's plan to confuse everyone! Screw world domination, lets just go tell the slayer she calls another potential and somehow the world will fall into chaos..

Um, how about no.
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you think you could try to keep this discussion to a mature level even when someone points out something that negates your opinion?

Slayer said:
Its funny how people can believe the word's of other writers or even scripts that were not written by Joss. But when a script comes along that proves something and is written by the one person who dictates the Buffyverse, they easily dismiss it.
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i'm sorry but while this may have proved something to *you*, it proved absolutely nothing to me. as for your example about caleb: when you find me the quote in which the first tells caleb clearly that the line runs through buffy (which happens to be our topic of discussion here), i'll start reconsidering.
 
Interesting and good that every time this discussion is brought up there are new people with new views on this... hehe. I wish I could believe that Wicca was right and Faith really was the "real" Chosen One in season 7. But I gotta agree with Comma on this.. Why would Joss do that to us? Try and trick us that way. I know, I agree that you should have watched the whole show before watching S-7 and then you would remember the slayer line going through Faith, but, since Beljoxa's Eye tells us something changed when Buffy was brought back, there is no longer an obvious answer after Bargaining.. So when character after character in season 7 tell us Buffy has to die for a new slayer to be called, there has to be a reason. I believe the reason is that Joss wanted to say that the line had gone back to Buffy, he wanted to say that without having to explain exactly what happened, and without really saying it, just making sure we knew it had happened.
 
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