If Cordelia had been the one to kidnap Connor instead of Wesley, what would Angel do?

[The1heart2]

This is a hypothetical question. We all saw how Angel reacted when he found out Wesley was the reason that Connor was taken to another dimension. Even when he saw Wesley laying in the bed near death, he smothered him with a pillow. SO, lets say if that had been Cordelia, if she had been the one to cause Connor to be taken away "for good" and was the one lying in the hospital bed. Do you think Angels anger would cause him to react the same way?


I know Angel cared A LOT about Cordelia, but lets think about how much Angel's son meant to him. Especially when he was just a defenseless infant who had no hatred for his father. Remember how pissed Angel was when he saw "Cordelia" having sex with Connor, he was furious. So how pissed do you see him being with her getting his son taken away. What do you think life would be like afterwards? Especially with Cordy still having visions and Angel needing her still. Also, do you think he could feel the same way about her after what she had done? This is all hypothetical. 🙂


P.S. I am a Cangel fan so I am not testing his love for her, I am just curious of everyones thoughts!

 

[Lyri]

I think Angel would have reacted in the exact same way, no matter who took Connor.

We saw Angel's reaction when Cordelia tried to show him what might happen if Connor needed to get to the hospital in the middle of the day if Angel refused to allow anyone near Connor.

Connor is - and always will be - the most important person in Angel's life, above EVERYONE. If someone does something that causes Angel to lose Connor for (seemingly) ever, then he's going to lose his mind - exactly like we saw. I don't think it matters who was in that bed - Cordelia, Fred, Lorne - Angel's sadness and devastation blurs everything.

He might have regretted a little more than we saw he did with Wesley, but I don't see Angel going lightly just because it was Cordelia.

 

[thetopher]

Personally, I think he would have reacted with the same ammount of fury to Cordelia. She and Wesley were his most trusted friends, after all.

Also, Cordelia's visions played zero part in the end od S3 or really any of S4 of Angel.

But the thing is with Cordelia, after her wound went and healed up she would've gone back to talk to Angel, explain her side of things, 'cause Cordelia isn't really afraid of anybody! 🙂
Who knows, maybe Cor could've actually made Angel see her side of things, at least after a time.

That's the difference imo.

 

[white avenger]

I highly doubt that Angel would have physically attacked Cordy, but I do think that it would have been a long, LONG time before he fully forgave her, if at all, and the bond of trust that they shared might have been destroyed forever.

But, for the record, I really can't see Cordy trying to do what Wes did. If it had been her, I think that she would have openly confronted Angel and convinced him that, in view of the evidence that they had at the time (false, of course) Connor would be both safer and happier growing up in a normal environment with normal parents. Angel wouldn't like the idea, but he would have been more inclined to listen to her than anyone else.

 

[The1heart2]

Personally, I think he would have reacted with the same ammount of fury to Cordelia. She and Wesley were his most trusted friends, after all.

Also, Cordelia's visions played zero part in the end od S3 or really any of S4 of Angel.

But the thing is with Cordelia, after her wound went and healed up she would've gone back to talk to Angel, explain her side of things, 'cause Cordelia isn't really afraid of anybody! 🙂
Who knows, maybe Cor could've actually made Angel see her side of things, at least after a time.

That's the difference imo.

To the bolded, yeah I agree, but I feel like that had more to do with Charisma Carpenter being pregnant. If she wasn't I think her visions would've still played a role in the show and I definitely think she would've been in season 5 as well. Thanks for contributing!




Do you all think the remorse Angel showed for Wesley would've have been different from the remorse he shown Cordelia? Angel didn't seem to make much effort with Wes, but I think he would've felt guiltier had it been Cordy.

 

[thetopher]

Interesting. I suppose Angel would've forgiven Cordelia more quickly, she did have a way of getting past his defences and reading him, even when they were just friends.
Angel really hadn't forgiven Wesley even in S5 (when nobody could remember Conner), I always thought he was colder with Wes, then never regained their former closeness or trust (which was a shame imo 🙁)

For the record I don't think Cordelia would've abducted Connor, but the thread asks what would happen if she did.
What Wes did is tied up in his Watcher training and personality, doing what must be done, whatever the cost- personal or otherwise. (Giles is the same, so I'm guessing it's a Watcher-thing. It's a moral ambiguity that I like about both characters, gives them their dark edge)

Cordelia whould just flat out confront Angel ("What do you mean Connor smells like food! Have you just lost it? Get a grip before I kick your ass!" 🙂)

 

[The1heart2]

It was sad that Angel never forgave Wes, and then Wes died so their issues were really unresolved. I personally hated Angel after that, not for trying to kill him because his anger at that moment was understandable, but because I feel like he gets cut SO MUCH SLACK, yet he won't return that sense of forgiveness. It's as if redemption only applies to him and no one else.

 

[thetopher]

You know, ironically I believe Cordelia could've healed the rift between them- she just never got the chance.
She could've visited Wes (I'm always surprised and saddened that she didn't- it means that after 'Couplet' the two of them don't really interact meaningfully until 'You're Welcome'- that's pretty shocking to think about. 😱) she could've got his side, sympathized, done her 'tell it like it is' Cordy stuff and got both of them in a room to fix things.
And yes, I think Angel should've made more of an effort to reach out to Wes in season 4, forgiveness is not something that Angel should just get given- he should give it, and he never really does.

 

[Tome]

Cordelia would have never done that without talking to Angel first.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Interesting question!

My gut says Angel would have reacted the same way. Cordelia and Wesley were both his closest friends, and he'd have felt equally betrayed by either.

 

[The1heart2]

Cordelia would have never done that without talking to Angel first.

It's a hypothetical question.

 

[Xin Rong]

I highly doubt that Angel would have physically attacked Cordy, but I do think that it would have been a long, LONG time before he fully forgave her, if at all, and the bond of trust that they shared might have been destroyed forever.

But, for the record, I really can't see Cordy trying to do what Wes did. If it had been her, I think that she would have openly confronted Angel and convinced him that, in view of the evidence that they had at the time (false, of course) Connor would be both safer and happier growing up in a normal environment with normal parents. Angel wouldn't like the idea, but he would have been more inclined to listen to her than anyone else.

Exactly, Cordy was a lot wiser than she's given credit for, she would not have taken Connor, although I don't think she would have given the prophecy much credence and rightly so, she would have definitely have had more faith in Angel, and would have made him aware of what was going on, and they would have found a way to work around the (fake) prophecy.

---------- Post added at 12:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 AM ----------

Interesting question!

My gut says Angel would have reacted the same way. Cordelia and Wesley were both his closest friends, and he'd have felt equally betrayed by either.

I'd disagree, Angel trusted Cordy more, he would have given her more of a chance to explain I think, and she would have been able to reason with him.

Angel and Wesley's relationship began in a bad way, with Wesley being shown to make consistently bad decisions... this was the straw that broke the camels back... whereas, if Cordy had made the same decision, Angel would have trusted her decision making process more, and been open to her views, but Wesley purely made a mistake based on inaccurate information.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Wesley failed to do any due diligence on the prophecy. He assumed that it was correct even though he knew that in a fight against a satanic legal firm, he could expect lies to be told.

Wesley also had a level of pride (which turned into hubris) about being the only one who could translate the prediction.

And what no one else has mentioned, Connor was the son of two vampires, unique in all history. Maybe Angel would eventually kill him because he would turn evil and need to be killed.

If Cordelia had done exactly the same things as Wesley, Angel would have done the same thing to her. But I can't see Cordy doing the same thing even if she had been able to translate the prediction herself.

 

[The1heart2]

I don't think Cordy would do it either, but this is strictly a HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION a what if type of scenario. I'm basically experimenting with the difference between how Angel would treat Cordelia versus how he treated Wesley. Would he have tried to kill her while she is laying defenseless in her hospital bed with a slit throat, would he shun her for months, would he be cold towards her, would he feel any remorse, would he not be able to look at her the same or have the same feelings he had for her, would he even want to have a relationship with her still. That is what I am trying to figure out. Wesley was Angels friend, but Cordelia was more than that to Angel, he had feelings for her, so I'm interested in how people think he would treat her from then on out.


ETA: This thread is not about the prophecy itself, this is not about whether Cordy would do this or not lol. The purpose is to see what the backlash would have been like if it were Cordelia who took Connor instead of Wesley.

 

[MarlieTheSlayer]

He would have done the same exact thing.

 

[brinkster130]

I agree with the general consensus that Angel would have reacted the same way. Cordy was family to him and this was a huge huge betrayal. I do think Angel would have forgiven Cordy quicker as she would have been harder on herself and would have made more effort to explain what happened.

Also, I don't think Angel was really trying to kill Wes. If he wanted him dead, he would be. Smothering him was more about scaring him and showing him just how much he hated him for what happened.

 

[BuffyElevated]

Ooh, wouldn't that have been interesting?!

I don't think Angel would have attacked Cordelia the way he did Wesley, but I do think he would have considered an even deeper betrayal and it would have taken him longer to recover from it and forgive her.

 

[adzpower]

I would have loved to see his reaction more if it were Buffy, now wouldn't THAT be interesting!?

 

[white avenger]

I would have loved to see his reaction more if it were Buffy, now wouldn't THAT be interesting!?

Buffy or Faith. Even in the same injured state as Wes (or maybe not, considering Slayer healing abilities) I think that Angel would have been less apt to attack either one of them. As for attacking Wes, just look at the scene. An enraged vampire, one of the 4 most powerful fighters in the Buffyverse, with strength bordering on superhuman, totally infuriated by the betrayal of one if his best friends, a betrayal that led to having his miracle son kidnapped and taken into a hell dimension to be raised by his worst enemy. That vampire is so enraged at the betrayal that it takes two hospital orderlies to drag him off of Wes and out of the room. Am I the only one who sees a slight inconsistency here? Angel was mad, certainly. Who wouldn't have been? But if he were as enraged as he appeared to be, he would have been like Captain America in the elevator in "The Winter Soldier." There wouldn't have been enough orderlies in that whole hospital to keep him from killing Wes, if that had been his intention.

Angel used just enough force on Wes to make his point, and not one bit more. Killing Wes never entered into Angel's thinking, or the beginning of the next episode would have shown Fred and Gunn putting fresh flowers on Wes' grave. He no longer trusted Wes, he no longer considered him a friend. And that was as far as it went. Angel never had any intention of killing Wes, or even hurting him any more than he already had been hurt.

"Why not?" you might ask. Well as a matter of fact, I was hoping that you would, cause it gives me a perfect opportunity to launch my latest Buffyverse theory.

Here goes.

Angel was a being who had lived with over a century of guilt and regret for the things that he had done in his bad old days, the deaths, the torturing, the rapes, and all the pain that he had caused the families of his victims. Killing Wes would deny him all that guilt. We see here, not the thinking of Angel, but of Angelus, the torturer, the conniver, the schemer, the monster who killed as a fun pastime, and caused more pain and suffering in Europe than the Plague. He didn't want Wes dead, he wanted him alive, abandoned by the only family that he had ever known, and suffering.

That's much better than just killing him.

 

[adzpower]

Buffy or Faith. Even in the same injured state as Wes (or maybe not, considering Slayer healing abilities) I think that Angel would have been less apt to attack either one of them. As for attacking Wes, just look at the scene. An enraged vampire, one of the 4 most powerful fighters in the Buffyverse, with strength bordering on superhuman, totally infuriated by the betrayal of one if his best friends, a betrayal that led to having his miracle son kidnapped and taken into a hell dimension to be raised by his worst enemy. That vampire is so enraged at the betrayal that it takes two hospital orderlies to drag him off of Wes and out of the room. Am I the only one who sees a slight inconsistency here? Angel was mad, certainly. Who wouldn't have been? But if he were as enraged as he appeared to be, he would have been like Captain America in the elevator in "The Winter Soldier." There wouldn't have been enough orderlies in that whole hospital to keep him from killing Wes, if that had been his intention.

Angel used just enough force on Wes to make his point, and not one bit more. Killing Wes never entered into Angel's thinking, or the beginning of the next episode would have shown Fred and Gunn putting fresh flowers on Wes' grave. He no longer trusted Wes, he no longer considered him a friend. And that was as far as it went. Angel never had any intention of killing Wes, or even hurting him any more than he already had been hurt.

"Why not?" you might ask. Well as a matter of fact, I was hoping that you would, cause it gives me a perfect opportunity to launch my latest Buffyverse theory.

Here goes.

Angel was a being who had lived with over a century of guilt and regret for the things that he had done in his bad old days, the deaths, the torturing, the rapes, and all the pain that he had caused the families of his victims. Killing Wes would deny him all that guilt. We see here, not the thinking of Angel, but of Angelus, the torturer, the conniver, the schemer, the monster who killed as a fun pastime, and caused more pain and suffering in Europe than the Plague. He didn't want Wes dead, he wanted him alive, abandoned by the only family that he had ever known, and suffering.

That's much better than just killing him.

Ooh I absolutely love that theory!😱