If Joyce had continued meddling... how would the council have responded?

[CordelliasHeart]

would they have arranged for police to "Find" some case of child abuse, or simply arranged for her to meet a tragic accident... ok thats probaly over the top, but thoughts.

 

[Blaze]

I don't really think they would have done anything to be quite honest. The council seem to be pretty clueless about what was going on. They were ***holes, but they did let Faith get out of hand to the point of literally losing a slayer (in fact they made it worst but that's another topic). Joyce never really prevented Buffy from doing her job, and even when she tried Buffy would find ways around it. Joyce wasn't a threat to the job, and Buffy needed to be in Sunnydale (or it was at least a good coincidence because of the hellmouth) so it was convenient.

Also, if the council didn't interfere with Buffy having civilians help her, I don't think they would much interfere with Buffy's mom being concerned at times, or trying to stop Buffy and failing at that. She really was simply not worth their times. And even with them being jerks, I don't think they'd take Buffy away so old or try to kill her mother, because that would be an automatic rebellion from B.

That being said, I'm not sure of the meddling you are referring too, from what I remember, Joyce didn't really meddle that much, people even call her irresponsible for letting her daughter do all those things. My memory might be failing me though, I haven't watched the earlier seasons in a while so everything is a bit fuzzy.

 

[CordelliasHeart]

when she found out at the end of season 2 she was all "It stops now" and "If you step out of this house dont even think of coming back"

she showed a shadow of that attitude in Anne, with "I blame you, I feel like youve taken her away from me"

 

[Lyri]

Okay, I really don't understand what you're talking about here.

The only time we can accuse Joyce of 'meddling' in Buffy's Slayer life was when she sent Buffy to an institution when Buffy told her about vampires. That was seemingly resolved within a few months and - if you buy into the canon of Slayer, Interrupted, like I do - being in that hospital actually enabled Buffy to take care of a threat to the patients, which the Council would have taken as an acceptable risk to get Buffy in there in the first place.

Other than that, there isn't actually anything Joyce did that got in the way of Buffy being the Slayer. Yes, she tried to make Buffy quit, but Buffy took care of that on her own and left. When she returned, Joyce was very much accepting of Buffy's role in life and in actual fact she took some pride in Buffy's work and even helped out on occasion and was interested in listening to what Buffy was working on.

when she found out at the end of season 2 she was all "It stops now" and "If you step out of this house dont even think of coming back"

she showed a shadow of that attitude in Anne, with "I blame you, I feel like youve taken her away from me"

That was nothing more than a mother being concerned for the safety of her daughter. Buffy's 'job' is HIGHLY dangerous, I would have been more surprised if Joyce had simply accepted everything she'd found out without saying anything. That simply wasn't the kind of woman Joyce was.

I do think the Council are capable of 'taking care' of the people they think are getting in the way of their mission, but I don't think Joyce could be accused of being in the position, and if the Council 'took care of her', I think it would have been for no other reason than pettiness.

And anyway, do you really think that Buffy would have considered working for the Council if they killed her mother, considering she turned her back on them when they refused to help her cure Angel.

 

[brinkster130]

I don't think the council would have had a parent killed, but they certainly wouldn't have had a problem with removing a slayer from a family and having her be raised by her watcher. My guess is that most parents eventually came around to the whole slayer concept once they learned the truth about vampires and demons. Plus, we know a parent couldn't physically stop a slayer from doing their job nor could they do anything to prevent their urge to slay....its probably easier for parent to just accept their child's destiny.

 

[Cordy_Chase]

[MENTION=8404]Blaze[/MENTION] pretty much covered it.
Honestly I don't see how Joyce was a problem. Other than a few attempts to disallow Buffy to patrol to which Buffy refused to yield, I don't see where said "meddling" occurred. Though the slayer thing had frightened Joyce she still respected it. Even if she had Buffy never lets anyone hold her back when she's determined. Joyce, her own mother was no exception, even when it came to typical teenage girl aspects such as getting her makeout session with Angel while grounded at the end of 'Bad Eggs' (total cuteness).

So I don't see where the council would have seen Joyce as a threat and even so they're quite sloppy in fact when it comes to disciplinary action and damage control. First they didn't straight away send Faith a replacement watcher of her own which could have kept her more in line. To ask a watcher to do something unknown to be possible and thus not a part of their training, guiding TWO slayers is both unfair and careless. They certainly took their time calling Giles on his inappropriate relationship with Buffy. He got a way with it for 2 whole seasons which was at least the span of a year, so Joyce too would have likely slid by had she been an issue. Then they assigned, once again BOTH slayers a watcher who may have been strict about the slayer lifestyle but had no experience out on the field and had a total lack of authority (Sorry Wes). It's no wonder Buffy had quit them around the time of all that shit.

To take such measures as to have a human being killed which seemed to be suggested here, I am pretty sure is beyond even them. They're not a mafia. If Joyce had presented an issue to Buffy's performance they probably would have just tried to separate them and likely failed. Like I said Buffy never allowed anyone to control her.

 

[CordelliasHeart]

id agree it never really became an issue it just seemed SUGGESTED briefly, and I thought it was a fascinating "what if" question

 

[Anya2012]

would they have arranged for police to "Find" some case of child abuse, or simply arranged for her to meet a tragic accident... ok thats probaly over the top, but thoughts.

Don't understand this post...Joyce never meddled. Not once. She started off being very unsure about her daughter being the Chosen one but accepted it eventually.

 

[white avenger]

Considering the fact that the Council had at least one full time wet team on call (the guys that they sent after Faith in Season 4) and just how important they felt that their mission was, plus the special circumstances in this particular case (namely, the real Slayer was locked away in prison where they would have had a hard time "retiring" her in order to initiate a new Calling) they would have probably deemed it necessary and expedient to take Joyce out of the picture entirely. In fact, it might make an interesting story to have Buffy find out that that's exactly what did happen. Joyce's mystery date slipped a slow acting, untraceable poison into her drink, and the flowers that he sent her the next day were actually for her funeral.

(Joss, if you're reading this, give me a call. I've got a bunch more interesting ideas to discuss, and I work cheap)

 

[ILLYRIAN]

IF the council had chosen to do anything, having Joyce killed would be extreme. The council were much better at the paperwork. So the council causing the gallery to go into serious debt would be more their sort of thing.
How would they have known that Joyce was interfering at all? Maybe Buffy's watcher might have mentioned a concern.
Having something else for Joyce to concentrate on, while Buffy's watcher made the best of the situation would appear to be the better solution.

 

[Cordy_Chase]

Considering the fact that the Council had at least one full time wet team on call (the guys that they sent after Faith in Season 4) and just how important they felt that their mission was, plus the special circumstances in this particular case (namely, the real Slayer was locked away in prison where they would have had a hard time "retiring" her in order to initiate a new Calling) they would have probably deemed it necessary and expedient to take Joyce out of the picture entirely. In fact, it might make an interesting story to have Buffy find out that that's exactly what did happen. Joyce's mystery date slipped a slow acting, untraceable poison into her drink, and the flowers that he sent her the next day were actually for her funeral.

(Joss, if you're reading this, give me a call. I've got a bunch more interesting ideas to discuss, and I work cheap)

Wow, as creative an idea as this is Joyce's autopsy revealed an aneurysm where her brain tumor had been removed. Is is possible for a poison to mimic this? The location is pretty specific for that.

I still don't see Joyce as having been a threat to merit any action, certainly not during season 5. She was too sick to have even tried to meddle if she'd wanted to but by this time she had fully accepted Buffy's slayer responsibilities.

 

[white avenger]

Wow, as creative an idea as this is Joyce's autopsy revealed an aneurysm where her brain tumor had been removed. Is is possible for a poison to mimic this? The location is pretty specific for that.

I still don't see Joyce as having been a threat to merit any action, certainly not during season 5. She was too sick to have even tried to meddle if she'd wanted to but by this time she had fully accepted Buffy's slayer responsibilities.

Who's to say that the Watchers' Council couldn't pay someone to falsify the autopsy? For an organization like that, with the resources that they no doubt command, I would be really surprised if they weren't capable of bribing medical staff and local officials. These are the people who have almost certainly been covering up vampire attacks and demon sightings for centuries.

 

[Cordy_Chase]

Who's to say that the Watchers' Council couldn't pay someone to falsify the autopsy? For an organization like that, with the resources that they no doubt command, I would be really surprised if they weren't capable of bribing medical staff and local officials. These are the people who have almost certainly been covering up vampire attacks and demon sightings for centuries.

That's a good point, I didn't consider that.
I still say it's out there though and that Joyce had certainly hadn't been in the way in season 5 to merit this.

 

[white avenger]

That's a good point, I didn't consider that.
I still say it's out there though and that Joyce had certainly hadn't been in the way in season 5 to merit this.

What I suggested was strictly hypothetical. The Watchers' Council COULD have done something like that. They had the power, the influence, and the state of mind to do something like that if they considered such action necessary.

By the same token, the Council could have been the ones who placed the second rifleman on the Grassy Knoll in order to keep Kennedy from bringing about the Ascension, sent Jimmy Hoffa into a hell dimension because he was negotiating a deal with the First Evil, orchestrated the Black Plague to cover up an upsurge of vampires in Europe, and planned the massacre at the Little Big Horn because George Custer and all of his command were werewolves.

We know definitely that they have been suppressing Bigfoot sightings in the Northwestern United States for the last two centuries, and Yeti sightings in the Himalayas even longer than that. These guys just can't be trusted.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Maybe the Watchers' Council is a creation of Wolfram & Hart. Their behaviour, including the threat to deport Giles, the Cruciamentum at age 18 and their wetworks teams seem to be more on the side of the demonic than the good.

Joyce hadn't reached the threshold of becoming a problem yet, but if she did, they would have done whatever was necessary to get her out of the picture.

 

[LindsayH]

I always felt that Joyce accepted Buffy's slayer responsibilities too easily. I mean your daughter hunts vampires and demons and is in charge of saving the world, yet with the exception of just a tiny bit of backlash, she was all in all quite accepting.

 

[Tome]

I always felt that Joyce accepted Buffy's slayer responsibilities too easily. I mean your daughter hunts vampires and demons and is in charge of saving the world, yet with the exception of just a tiny bit of backlash, she was all in all quite accepting.

I know what you mean, but it's not like she could do much. This whole Slayer thing was way bigger than her.

 

[white avenger]

I know what you mean, but it's not like she could do much. This whole Slayer thing was way bigger than her.

Bigger than her, maybe, but that wouldn't necessarily have stopped someone like Joyce from trying. Thinking back on it now, it seems rather strange that she didn't try something beyond her one time at the end of Season 2, telling Buffy not to come back if she left to fight Angelus. Joyce never struck me as the type of woman who would just accept something like that so easily.

Then again, only a short time after Buffy returned, Faith moved into town. Maybe joyce figured that, given a little time,she could have talked Buffy into stepping down, or at least cutting back, from her duties as Slayer. If she had ever learned that, technically, Buffy actually WASN'T the official Slayer anymore, and hadn't been since Kendra had been called, she might have been much more insistent, or simply packed up and moved to Arizona or Bolivia, or maybe Tibet, and taken Buffy, a minor with no actual say in the matter, as far away from the Watchers' Council's influence as she could manage. Of course, the Watchers are, theoretically at least, everywhere, so running away from them would have been difficult, if not downright impossible.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Considering how clever the Watchers Council was when the First made its move against them, Joyce and Buffy could have bought a garage (the one used when Glory was after them). Heck, Angel could have visited every week end and the Watchers Council still wouldn't have a clue how to find her.