"If they hurt Willow, I'll kill you."

[Icarium]

And yes I realise this is opening a whole new can of worms, but I thought his behaviour in attempting to manipulate Buffy to kill Angel in Becoming 2, and then again his manipulation of the situation in Revelations in trying to get Faith to murder a souled being, was out of line. If you don't agree, that is fine, but personally I feel that omitting information and taking advantage of situations is a bad character trait.

I don't agree indeed but that's not the point. Even if I did agree these incidents are few and far between. You claimed that Xander's "behaviour was largely inexcusable throughout most of his time there." Might as well claim Buffy is a compulsive liar because she lied to Giles a few times.

Once again you aren't exactly listening (reading?) what I'm saying. You're intentionally swapping words here and there to try and make what I'm saying take on a different meaning. I don't really feel any need to do that, so I won't. I will just reiterate again that my issue wasn't with him being 'able to get a half-decent job immediately when he needed one'. Once again, you're writing like I said that... I'm fairly certain that you'll find that I didn't. My entire issue with his job problems was that he couldn't hold a job. He kept getting fired, and not trying very hard to be adequate. If you want to use Buffy as a comparison, aside from her 'the burgers are people' firing, which was due to supernatural reasons and not her, she came to terms with what she had to do to survive in the world, gritted her teeth, and got on with it.

No, you are not listening. Both Buffy and Xander could do much better, career-wise. They didn't because they were in a bad place mentally. Heck, Giles didn't know what to do with his life in S4 too, is he lacking in maturity too? The show turned Xander's jobs into a big joke, but meta-considerations aside, it's quite easy to explain it away with him not really doing his best because he wasn't sure what he really wanted to do for a living. He didn't know what to aspire to. Once he found a calling that appealed to him, he did splendidly. This happens to millions of young people around the world. Other millions spend more than just one year changing job after job.

We're not discussing Anya's way of discussing things. We are discussing whether or not Xander should have bought up the fact that he didn't want to marry her before the actual day of the wedding.

But he did want to get married. It's not as if he deliberately waited for the last possible moment in order to humiliate Anya as much as possible.

I assumed that because he didn't do well on his test (only got about 740 combined), that he wasn't the brightest spark, and wouldn't be able to get in to college. I assumed that if he got only half of Willow's score then that would mean he roughly only got 50%, which means he failed right? Someone American can probably clear more up for me I suppose, but that was my assumption!

I think Xander simply had no interest in going to college. That said, I suspect that if his family was better off, he could have tried going to college. I mean, a guy who says things like "Do I deconstruct your segues?", "The quality of mercy is not Buffy" or "If he [Death] asks you to play chess, don't even do it. The guy's, like, a whiz." can't really be described as ignorant. 🙂

 

[BuffyElevated]

I LOVE that line from "The Gift". ^^ Even though he couldn't physically help fight Glory, I love that he found a way to help. So true to his nature. 🙂

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I wonder if people hate Buffy for saying "And I'll kill anyone who comes near Dawn" in The Gift. Because it's very, very similar.

Well, I don't hate Xander, so no, this comment is not unforgiveable. In my opinion, Buffy's comment regarding Dawn is worse. It always makes me cringe. Good thing Spike has a quip to lighten the mood.

And I could never hate Buffy.

 

[Gotham]

Disliked Xander until The Zeppo, from then on for me he became the most relatable character in the show. As someone already said, he was out in the real world, dealing with real life problems. So yeah, I liked Xander.

As for what he said to Buffy in that episode, I haven't seen it in a few years, but I just remember Buffy being an absolute mare in that episode. She needed to hear what Xander said.

 

[Sommers Summers]

I just want to mention Xander didn't go to college because he didn't get in. I'm still not clear on if he even applied anywhere but never did they mention that Xander had money issues with going to college. Several times they mention Xander had grade issues and SAT score issues with going to college. There are many reasons one would go into the workforce instead of straight into college, I agree... but Xander didn't go to college because he didn't get in and it was heavily implied he didn't get in because of his grades and test scores. Also in no way to grades and test scores directly and/or accurately represent intelligence. I am a very intelligent and capable young woman. However, if you look at my transcripts from high school and college, you won't see good grades.

I believe Xander was smart enough for college... but he didn't get in... and I'm not sure he even made the effort. Since it's not really made clear that he even applied to college, I'm going to assume he didn't apply. Especially since he says when he gets his SAT scores that he'll be going straight into the workforce. He assumed it would be too hard and didn't even look at going to a community college or city school (which are REALLY cheap and they don't really turn people away). Intelligence isn't the issue here... self confidence and work ethic are the issues.

Look at his family situation and tell me he COULD afford to go to college... I don't think so.

 

[Taake]

It surprises me how this line makes a lot of fans hate Xander and want Buffy to slap him silly. I get hating Xander because he's such a flawed character, but at this moment, I just don't see it.

Honestly I was completely surprised to see this.
I think this line makes all the sense in the world. Everyone has their breaking point, as mentioned Buffy wasn't exactly being either a team player or a very nice person upon her return to Sunnydale, and Xander just reached his. He snapped, he said something rashly based on anger and frustration that was completely justified, in part because I think Buffy needed to hear it.

But also because obviously it's hypberole, not something he was actually going to do.

(even if Willow had been hurt died. I don't believe he would have forgiven Buffy but kill her? No)

 

[ashsummers]

I think personal experience colours alot of how we feel about the characters. So I can totally see how Xander would be a complete Fecker to someone who had been hurt in a similar way by another. Also Xander often is just a complete fecker so that's fair enough.

At the same time it's important to realise that other people correlate their lives and the lives of people they know in the same way you do. Which is why I think labelling Xander unintelligent because he didn't go to University could have the potential to be quite offensive. Which I know of course wasn't the intention. It's just there are many kinds of intelligence and I personally think Xander is very smart and extremely quick but it's hard to get good grades when people don't believe in you and more importantly you don't believe in yourself.

Being intelligent is only one of a multitude of factors that need to be in place for a student to go on to further education and indeed be successful including self belief, a good support network, drive and of course money. Xander certainly had less of these factors combined than the others but was he less intelligent? I don't think so.

As far as Xander himself goes... Boy is definitely flawed that is for sure but I think he is a good person once you get passed alot of that surfacey ass stuff. I think he is definitely one of those characters whom in order to love you have to have a strong ability to forgive. I haven't always loved him.

I hated that he didn't tell Buffy about Willows attempt to restore Angels soul in 'Becoming' and instead claimed Willow said "kick his ass" (Always found it funny that it didn't seem strange to Buffy that Willow would say that? 😉 )

I hated how he tore into Buffy hard about keeping secret lovers blah blah and then did the same thing with Willow. Which I know wouldn't have end-of-the-world-consequences in the same way but breaking two of your best friends hearts, one your girlfriend at the time, is still pretty damn awful consequences in my book.

I hated how he gave Buffy such a hard time at the start of season 3 for bailing after she had to kill the love of her life when he himself is the King of Bail..

But I also love alot of things about him too..

I love that he bought Cordelia the dress (collective awww!)

I love that he was there for Buffy when everyone else became a little self involved at the start of season 4 including Giles and Willow.

I love that he is funny and warm and insightful (in his own unique way).

But mostly I love how much he loves Willow and how loyal he is. I love that it was the pureness and strength of this love that brought Willow back from the brink. That's why I've no problem with him saying "If they hurt Willow, I'll kill you" to Buffy. Too right I say.

I think I forgive Xander because I understand why he acted the way he did for the most part. He has it rough you know? With his family and financial situation but worst of all not having any of the abilities his friends have. In the early days both him and Willow were in the same boat but as she got more powerful it must have been difficult for him. But he dealt with it well (not right away but in the end) and learnt to accept his lot(which must have been very hard) and was able to help Dawn through similar feelings of inadequacy which to me anyway really showed how much he'd grown.

 

[Kana]

Xander is one of those characters I like but don't love. Yes he's wonderfully flawed but I don't hate him for it. To be honest there are few caracters I hate, mainly because I don't generally hate people. I believe it's a wasted emotion and I certainly wouldn't wast it on fictional characters. However I can be irratated by behaviour.

As for Xander's line? I don't hate it. He generally always looked up to Buffy and I believe he tends to let himself become more disappointed with her actions than with others because he put(s) her on a pedestal. The reason I don't like this is because a) it's unfair and b) he often comes across as being a hyopcrite. This said, sometimes Xander has this 'childlike' quality and sometimes that means simply saying something and not beating around the bush, but sometimes it means he can oversimplify and be judgemental.

All this said, Xander is the one guy who's never abandoned her and I admire his loyalty. That's why Buffy line about 'the one who's watching her back' if hadn't been for Xander watching her back then she wouldn't have lasted a year as the Slayer.

I'm not going to talk about the Xanya almost wedding as I believe there is a thread for that.

 

[Willow My Love]

I love Xander for that line. I identify with Willow a lot, (shocking!) and Xander reminds me of my twin brother somewhat. More in the later seasons. (yeah, it makes their attraction to each other particularly awkward, but oh well. Eurotrip was awkward too. Thanks, Michelle.) If I were in danger, Joe would say the same thing, and completely mean it.

I've only wanted to hurt Xander once. When he left Anya. I wanted to smack the crap out of him and push him down that aisle.