If Xander had told Buffy what Willow told him to tell her…?

Chosen Enemy

Chosen Enemy

Losing my soul
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Willow didn't tell Xander to tell Buffy to kick Angel's ass. She wanted her to know that she's doing the spell after all. And Xander knew that if he had told that to Buffy, Buffy wouldn't kill Angel, or at least drag the fight out until the spell works. And Xander, who wasn't a fan of Angel's, soul or no soul, didn't want that to happen. So he lied to Buffy and she ended up "killing" Angel.

Now, do you think that if Xander had told Buffy what Willow really wanted her to know, Angel would have been saved from the firey hell dimension and would have walked out of there with Buffy?
 
I think that Buffy will still kill Angel even if she knew. Angel pulled out the sword while Buffy was busy fighting other vampires, so she will have to send him to hell even if she knew that Willow was working on the spell.
 
R
Ripper666
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W
Willow My Love
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Yes this is a really dark and ugly side of Xander...And I think that this could have been the ruin for the Xander Buffy friendship if Buffy is not such a great person. But it wouldn't change or rescue the Angel/Buffy relationship!
 
No, the sword had already been pulled out - he had to be sent to the hell to save the world. The biggest think it would have changed is the perception of Xander's character. His actions here and his lack of remorse really shows a negative side of Xander, one that many people never forget or forgive him for.
 
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InsaneMystic
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ashleigh
ashleigh
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brinkster130 said:
No, the sword had already been pulled out - he had to be sent to the hell to save the world. The biggest think it would have changed is the perception of Xander's character. His actions here and his lack of remorse really shows a negative side of Xander, one that many people never forget or forgive him for.
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But when Xander said to Buffy what he said, it was before the sword has been pulled out. Buffy's attention has been distracted by the other vampires while Angel pulled out the sword. If Xander had said that, Buffy could have dealt with Angel instead of the vampires and make sure he didn't get to the sword.
 
brinkster130
brinkster130
I don't think she could have stopped that...see Sosa's reply. ;)
I think Angelous would have noticed if Buffy tried to play for time... he is too intellegent for that! So I think that Angelous would have pulled the sword out, even if Xander told Buffy or not.
 
Chosen Enemy said:
But when Xander said to Buffy what he said, it was before the sword has been pulled out. Buffy's attention has been distracted by the other vampires while Angel pulled out the sword. If Xander had said that, Buffy could have dealt with Angel instead of the vampires and make sure he didn't get to the sword.
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Just watched the scene. Buffy was going to stake Angel but then she was attacked by a vampire. Angel pulled out the sword while she was fighting the vampire, and as far as she knew, Spike was still beating up Angel. She was caught off gaurd when Angel pulled out the sword. I don't see how it was going play out differently.
 
Chosen Enemy
Chosen Enemy
I'll count that
brinkster130
brinkster130
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Kana
Kana
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I can't see it making a difference in that respect. I can't see Buffy trying any harder to stop Angelus pulling out the sword but arguably, knowing that he may be re-ensoulled may have distracted her.

On the other hand Xander's resolve to have have Angelus killed even included encouraging the idea of Giles going after Angelus even though it was likely, Giles would have been killed in that scenario.

I think it may have been mixed motives with Xander. I think he felt Angelus should be killed as punishment for crimes but I also believe that he wanted to keep Buffy's fighting spirit strong, fearing that the hope of getting Angel back may have distracted her.

To me that's what makes his character so interesting.
 
I can't remember...when had Acathla been opened? Was that way before Buffy got to the mansion? If so, then yes, I think she would have killed him anyway. Now that I think about, it probably would have made her incredibly unfocused. I used to hate Xander for that, but maybe it was best that he lied. If Acathla wasn't already open when she arrived, then maybe she would have stalled. But I'm pretty sure that it was.
 
I think if she had of known the fight would have gone slightly differently but she still would have to have done what she did but it would have hurt even more.
 
Buffy had finally resolved to put an end to Angelus. Xander telling her about Willow trying again to re-ensoul Angel would just cause her to go easy on Angelus to stall for time. Xander did what was necessary to save the world from being sucked into Hell. I think Angel would even understand that.
 
Completely agreed with [MENTION=10582]brinkster130[/MENTION]; I don't see it making any difference in the fight, but a world of difference in perception of Xander's character. I consider "Kick His Ass" his lowest moment ever in the show, bar none. (And yes, that includes "Dead Man's Party" (2nd worst), "Hell's Bells" (mostly just bad timing), and "Empty Places" (where I can forgive him
easiest of the mutinous Scoobies, on account of the fresh trauma of losing his frickin' eye
).)

sosa lola said:
Whether Xander's lie saved Buffy or not, I hated that he lied. He took that decision away from her. He should have told her and believed in her.
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And what's even worse (to me at least), he betrayed Willow's trust. Will would have been (rightly!) pissed if she knew what her message was twisted into. This was not the action of a friend - not to Buffy, and even less to Will.
 
She had to kill him. Had she known, I really think it would've made it harder for her ti fight him. At the time, I hated it, but I think Xander actually did some good there. He let Buffy feel like she had to get rid of him. If she knew that Willow was working to restore his soul, she would have hesitated.
 
I think she would have worked harder to stall the sword being pulled out. I think she would have fought differently. It wouldn't have been the fight we saw. I don't think it's fair to say "no, the sword had already been pulled out" because this is an entirely different fight were talking about here. What if this sword wasn't?

Honestly, it'd be very interesting to watch that scene move for move and try to figure out how Buffy would have fought differently.
 
I always remember this being the big Buffy debate while I was watching the series back in the day. It was so big that they even called back to it in an episode in the seventh season, but they just had the characters quickly brush it aside. I remember thinking that it was so little a payoff for such a big fan debate. Maybe the writers felt that Xander's lie to help Buffy do what needed to be done just wasn't as important as everything else in the grand scheme of things.
 
Hmm...I don't think so. Buffy and Angelus had a pretty epic fight that went the distance, and I'm not sure that, regardless of what she did or how she might have dragged it out, she could have prolonged it any further. She wins, cleanly, but her and Angelus were pretty evenly matched. I mean, remember, Angel does get his soul back, and Buffy still has to throw him into hell, so I don't really know what she else she could have done. Angelus was committed to awakening Acathla, so even if Buffy had adjusted her strategy I don't think she could have kept him away from the statue much longer.

As for Xander, if I had been Buffy and found out how he lied, I would have knocked him out.
 
Hmm.

I remember answering a question similar to this at one point somewhere down the line lol.

It MIGHT have made a difference, i think Buffy may have held on even for just 1 more second (which to be fair probably wouldn't have ended the world) and that 1 second could have been enough for Willow to do the spell) but then she would of had to have found another way to stop Acathla, so yeah, it sort of leaves you stuck lol.

I think it would have been more interesting if Buffy had found out that Xander lied earlier than what she did though, it could have changed a lot of Buffy had done something out of anger if she had found out when her emotions were high, and it could have changed their friendship quite a bit.
 
Something else to be considered was the fact that Buffy had only recently completely resolved herself to the fact that there was no part of her beloved Angel whatsoever within Angelus, and that Angel was lost to her forever. Her final hope, the spell that Willow had attempted, had failed, so all was, apparently, lost. That is what really gave her the resolve to fully commit herself to what had to be done.

If Buffy had thought that there was any chance that Angel might be returned to her, she would, certainly, tried to stall until the spell could be invoked. Angelus, on the other hand, would certainly recognize what was happening, even if he didn't know why Buffy was holding back. Under no such constraints himself, he would have quite likely beaten and killed Buffy, leaving no opposition to his plan.

As much as many fans might disapprove of Xander's actions, it's quite likely that, if he had not done exactly what he did, Angelus would have been successful.
 
I don't think anything would change maybe Buffy would felt weak as she knew Angel was gonna come back and would be harder to kill him or it would of preapred her.

I personally glad Xander didn't tell Buffy as like I said she might of felt weak and couldn't do it. But I do think Xander should of told her if Angelus didn't take the sword out.
 
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