If Xander Never Existed

[sosa lola]

I've been pondering over a fic to write for Spring_With_Xander, and then Anya's wish came to me, "I wish you were never born." What if Anya was able to grant her own wish? What would have changed if Xander was never born?

1) Willow would be a different person, not having Xander around. I'm not sure how Willow would change. That's a question for hardcore Willow fans.

2) Buffy would still arrive to Sunnydale, perhaps befriends Cordelia depending on how Willow's character will be at that stage or still befriends Willow. No one would be there to revive Buffy after the Master kills her "“ no one would be there to talk Angel into taking him to the Master.

3) The world would probably end up being exactly like The Wish with a few changes: Buffy wouldn't be there. Another Slayer would be there: either Kendra or Faith. There wouldn't be Vampire Xander. Willow would probably be one of the White-Hats with Giles, Angel and Miss Calendar.

What do you think?

 

[Kean]

I've been pondering over a fic to write for Spring_With_Xander, and then Anya's wish came to me, "I wish you were never born." What if Anya was able to grant her own wish? What would have changed if Xander was never born?

1) Willow would be a different person, not having Xander around. I'm not sure how Willow would change. That's a question for hardcore Willow fans.

2) Buffy would still arrive to Sunnydale, perhaps befriends Cordelia depending on how Willow's character will be at that stage or still befriends Willow. No one would be there to revive Buffy after the Master kills her "“ no one would be there to talk Angel into taking him to the Master.

3) The world would probably end up being exactly like The Wish with a few changes: Buffy wouldn't be there. Another Slayer would be there: either Kendra or Faith. There wouldn't be Vampire Xander. Willow would probably be one of the White-Hats with Giles, Angel and Miss Calendar.

What do you think?

To be honest I don't think any of that stuff would have happened. Although I do think Willow would have been a lot quieter and reserved than she already was but chances are she would still have been in Sunnydale High, being a bit of a loner and bullied by Cordy.

But just looking at the first two episodes there is a good chance that Willow would have been killed or vamped (Because Xander wasn't there to help Buffy look for her and get her out of the way).

To remove one of the core four literally creates an entirely different story. I don't think we could even realistically work off he one we have.

 

[sosa lola]

Interesting about Willow being vamped. I'm not really sure how Willow would change without Xander in her life, but I do think she'd be different.

What's so sad about it that without Xander and Willow, Buffy would be friendless. I doubt that Cordelia would still be her friend when she discovers that she's a Slayer freak.

 

[Kean]

What's so sad about it that without Xander and Willow, Buffy would be friendless.

That's such a horrible thought. Although it does make me wonder would Angel have been more involved with her life if that was the case. I think he would. They would certainly need each other on another level if Buffy didn't have Scoobies.

I doubt that Cordelia would still be her friend when she discovers that she's a Slayer freak.

I don't know. If Buffy saved Cordy from a similar situation as she did in S1, I think we would see Cordy about as much as we did see her. She didn't start hanging with the group just because of Xander. It was because of Buffy.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I don't know. If Buffy saved Cordy from a similar situation as she did in S1, I think we would see Cordy about as much as we did see her. She didn't start hanging with the group just because of Xander. It was because of Buffy.

I think would have seen her more; Buffy and Cordy were fast friends before Buffy choose Willow and Xander over her. I think it would have been much more like the movie. Just replace Pike with Angel and thats the movie.

 

[sosa lola]

I doubt Cordelia would be friends with Buffy so quickly after the whole "Childhood Trauma" incident. Cordelia cares so much about her reputation and statue at school. Buffy's weird behavior would only drive her away.

I think Buffy would be closer to Angel and do depended on him if Xander and Willow weren't around. I'm not sure it would be healthy, though.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I doubt Cordelia would be friends with Buffy so quickly after the whole "Childhood Trauma" incident.

But did that incident happen regardless or was it simply that Willow as an easy target? If you remove Willow from the scene, would that incident still happen? Or would Buffy have followed Darla and Moo (6 feet under, anyone?) out the front, thereby avoiding Cordy?

 

[WakingNightmare]

I imagine Willow would be very different without Xander's friendship. Neither of them had an all great home life and they probably depended on each other quite a bit.

Without Xander or Buffy, I can actually picture Willow to be kind of like Warren or the nerds. They just wanted to have power and to get in on the game. Just speculations though. There's all sort places Willow could end up without Xander's support.

Buffy would most likley be dead (Xander's been saving her since episode one) or just very, very lonley as her only friends would be Giles and Angel and she'd probably lose all her humanity.

Xander was the only one who had faith in Buffy to kill The Master, so if he hadn't gone down there to revive her then Sunnydale would go all Wish!Verse without Anya's spell in play.

But we'd never met Anya, as Xander's not around to cheat on Cordelia, so she'd remain a Vengance Demon.

Cordelia would probably get a typical horror movie death and never have the chance to develop as a person. Sob! 🙁

God, this is a terrifying thought.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Since Oz was at the school in the first season (though you never see him) maybe the love triangle that was Buffy/Xander/Angel would have been Buffy/Oz/Angel... maybe Oz falls for Cordy. You remove Willow and much of it changes. Buffy was only friends with Xander because he was friends with Willow. So no Willow and Buffy wouldnt give Xander the time of day.

I just dont see how Buffy would have been friendless. Buffy was only friendless because she became FRIENDS with the friendless.

 

[white avenger]

To remove one of the core four literally creates an entirely different story. I don't think we could even realistically work off he one we have.

Without Xander there, possibly Jesse would have filled in the empty space, which could have made the central group fairly similar to what it actually was, since I got the idea from his brief time on the show that Xander and Jesse had quite a lot in common. Unfortunately, because he WAS there for so short a time, and he wasn't mentioned afterwards, there's no real way of knowing.

Either Harmony or Jonathan could have had their roles expanded and their personalities tweaked somewhat to becaoe a bit more Xander-like.

It might have been interesting if Willow and Harmony had been friends. Harm the way that she was actually written didn't contribute very much to the story line anyway, so changing her into a female Xander wouldn't have left much of a gap in Cordelia's group. Of course, that might have looked just too much like "Charlie's Angels" with a supernatural twist.

Jonathan might have worked quite well in Xander's place. The way that that character was portrayed, he might have fit in with the group quite well.

It depends primarily on whether you you were going to do the change as a temporary thing, like what was done with Buffy in "The Wishverse," or if Xander's character had actually never been included on the show. Obviously, if the former, you would have wanted the loss to have made a drastic change in the story line, to illustrate just how integral his character had been. If the latter, obviously, it would have been entirely up to whether or not the character replacing him would have been portrayed the same way as he was, or differently.

 

[Kean]

I doubt Cordelia would be friends with Buffy so quickly after the whole "Childhood Trauma" incident. Cordelia cares so much about her reputation and statue at school. Buffy's weird behavior would only drive her away.

But why didn't it drive her away in the actual canon? Buffy helped her, she identified with Buffy in a way, and I think she really admired Buffy's courage and strength. Now, of course Cordy would shave her head before admitting any of that but I think ultimately she would end up being friends with Buffy because all of the things that drew her to Buffy in the actual canon would still be there.

I'm not sure it would be healthy, though.

Either am I. They already became so much to each other, to be each other's only friends too is far too much for any two people.

---------- Post added at 02:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:16 PM ----------

Scobro agrees: But that took time, in the actual canon.. it wasnt really till the very end of the season.

True, but I'm assuming that Cordy's season would have been very similar regardless of Xander being there or not. I'd expect for Buffy to have to save Cordy from one threat or another and since her death was prophecised, I expect the whole Hellmouth opening would still happen.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

True, but I'm assuming that Cordy's season would have been very similar regardless of Xander being there or not. I'd expect for Buffy to have to save Cordy from one threat or another and since her death was prophecised, I expect the whole Hellmouth opening would still happen.

No, I agree, but I think had Xander not been there (and as such Willow) then they would have still been friends before that scene happened. Maybe I need to go back and watch the season again, but I thought by that time she was already being othered for hanging out with Willow and Xander.

 

[sosa lola]

Without Xander there, possibly Jesse would have filled in the empty space, which could have made the central group fairly similar to what it actually was, since I got the idea from his brief time on the show that Xander and Jesse had quite a lot in common.

I doubt it would be exactly the same with Xander being replaced by Jesse. Jesse and Xander aren't that similar. Jesse wasn't attracted to Buffy like Xander was; he was all over Cordelia while Xander couldn't care less about her. The reason Cordelia became attracted to Xander was his bravery as well as his ability to engage in witty snark with her. Jesse was too smitten by Cordelia to say anything bad to her or about her. Also, I didn't get the impression that Willow and Jesse were that close. It seemed they were only friends because of Xander. But it would be interesting to explore the differences had Jesse been the one to survive and Xander the one to die.

Either Harmony or Jonathan could have had their roles expanded and their personalities tweaked somewhat to becaoe a bit more Xander-like.

You know, Friendless Buffy could be friends with Jonathan. It would be out of desperation at first, but then she'd grow to like him as a person. That would have changed Jonathan's life 100%.

It depends primarily on whether you you were going to do the change as a temporary thing, like what was done with Buffy in "The Wishverse," or if Xander's character had actually never been included on the show. Obviously, if the former, you would have wanted the loss to have made a drastic change in the story line, to illustrate just how integral his character had been.

Honestly, I don't think any character can be replaced without having big changes in the story. There's no character like Xander: Jesse and Jonathan are very different from Xander, they only share his geekdom and loser statue, but when it comes to personalities, they're different.

But did that incident happen regardless or was it simply that Willow as an easy target? If you remove Willow from the scene, would that incident still happen? Or would Buffy have followed Darla and Moo (6 feet under, anyone?) out the front, thereby avoiding Cordy?

The point of that scene was that Buffy hunting vampires wasn't so hot on Cordelia's list. She called her a freak and being friends with her would have damaged her reputation. I can see her becoming friends with Buffy down the road, but not right away.

But why didn't it drive her away in the actual canon? Buffy helped her, she identified with Buffy in a way, and I think she really admired Buffy's courage and strength. Now, of course Cordy would shave her head before admitting any of that but I think ultimately she would end up being friends with Buffy because all of the things that drew her to Buffy in the actual canon would still be there.

Yes, but that would probably take time. Cordelia didn't become BFF with Buffy right away. Actually never in canon.

 

[Kean]

No, I agree, but I think had Xander not been there (and as such Willow) then they would have still been friends before that scene happened. Maybe I need to go back and watch the season again, but I thought by that time she was already being othered for hanging out with Willow and Xander.

Oh she definitely was. Cordy came to tell her about gym class being cancelled, sees her with Xander, Will and Jesse and tells her "I don't mean to interrupt your downward mobility..."

So she had certainly started to deduct cool points from Buffy. So my point is (and I actually think we are making the same point) that all the reasons she liked Buffy are still there, with or without th Scoobies. In fact, there is an argument to be made that they would have been closer friends without them.

---------- Post added at 02:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:50 PM ----------

Yes, but that would probably take time. Cordelia didn't become BFF with Buffy right away. Actually never in canon.

Well, I wasn't suggesting that they would become friends right away, let alone BFFs. But that the chance of Buffy and Cordy being friends isn't hampered by Xander not existing. In fact I kinda think it offers them a greater chance to be friends. 🙂

 

[sosa lola]

Oh she definitely was. Cordy came to tell her about gym class being cancelled, sees her with Xander, Will and Jesse and tells her "I don't mean to interrupt your downward mobility..."

So she had certainly started to deduct cool points from Buffy. So my point is (and I actually think we are making the same point) that all the reasons she liked Buffy are still there, with or without th Scoobies. In fact, there is an argument to be made that they would have been closer friends without them.

---------- Post added at 02:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:50 PM ----------



Well, I wasn't suggesting that they would become friends right away, let alone BFFs. But that the chance of Buffy and Cordy being friends isn't hampered by Xander not existing. In fact I kinda think it offers them a greater chance to be friends. 🙂

That's very interesting. I need to rewatch the first two episodes again. I think Cordelia still liked Buffy after she caught her socializing with the geeks, what made her repulsed by her was the false attack. So, I do think that Buffy being a Slayer would turn off Cordelia. Especially if Buffy kept trying to hide that from her. Cordelia would still see her as weird and not fit to be a Cordette.

But what about Buffy? Buffy preferred hanging out with Willow, she seemed to be over the Queen Bitch attitude and I'm not sure she'd appreciate being friends with someone like Cordelia. She seemed to have outgrown that.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

there is an argument to be made that they would have been closer friends without them.

That is my argument. I said it first. You are such the tourist.

 

[Kean]

That's very interesting. I need to rewatch the first two episodes again. I think Cordelia still liked Buffy after she caught her socializing with the geeks, what made her repulsed by her was the false attack. So, I do think that Buffy being a Slayer would turn off Cordelia. Especially if Buffy kept trying to hide that from her. Cordelia would still see her as weird and not fit to be a Cordette.

Cordy never really lets go of that Buffy Freak of Nature attitude though, and she still stuck around. I think Buffy saving her life changed Cordy's POV on Buffy. If Buffy was using her freakdom to save Cordy, then it was OK with her.

But what about Buffy? Buffy preferred hanging out with Willow, she seemed to be over the Queen Bitch attitude and I'm not sure she'd appreciate being friends with someone like Cordelia. She seemed to have outgrown that.

I definitely agree that Buffy had moved on, but like you said above, if Buffy didn't have Willow and Xander, Buffy would have been friendless. I could see Buffy hanging around Cordy just to have someone to hang around with.

Or maybe we are restricting this too much. Buffy was an outgoing girl, lets say she still decides that she doesn't like what Cordy is offering, she is just as likely to find other people to hang out with. It could be people we never met, but equally could have beenOwen, Oz, Scott, Amy...the list goes on.

 

[sosa lola]

Cordy never really lets go of that Buffy Freak of Nature attitude though, and she still stuck around. I think Buffy saving her life changed Cordy's POV on Buffy. If Buffy was using her freakdom to save Cordy, then it was OK with her.

You have a point here.

I definitely agree that Buffy had moved on, but like you said above, if Buffy didn't have Willow and Xander, Buffy would have been friendless. I could see Buffy hanging around Cordy just to have someone to hang around with.

Or maybe we are restricting this too much. Buffy was an outgoing girl, lets say she still decides that she doesn't like what Cordy is offering, she is just as likely to find other people to hang out with. It could be people we never met, but equally could have beenOwen, Oz, Scott, Amy...the list goes on.

What about Willow? She's still around, however she turned out without Xander.

 

[Kean]

What about Willow? She's still around, however she turned out without Xander.

Oh sorry, I thought we working off Willow not being there for that question. But either way, Buffy having the potential to be friends with other people still stands.

In a way the Willow question wouldn't really be up to Buffy, it would be up to Willow. How socially evolved would a Xanderless (possibly friendless) Willow be? Especially to someone who potentially looked to be a Cordette in training.

 

[sosa lola]

I think Willow would be in a very dark place without Xander. I'm not sure how she'll turn out, but I don't think she'll be the same sweet and insecure girl Buffy met had Xander still existed. I shudder to think of how Xander would turn out without Willow. I see cigarettes and beer, a Faith-like Xander.

I think when it comes to Buffy/Cordelia, Buffy would rather be friends with someone else. Like in canon. She'd probably be friends with Amy after she saves her from her mother.

I doubt Buffy and Oz would be friends, they never really clicked IMO.