If you were Buffy, would you have forgiven Giles?

[Robb Stark]

After he and Wood conspire to have Spike killed. I think Buffy understood why Wood wanted to do it, but with Giles, she was pissed. Which makes perfect sense. I think she gets over it by the end, but would you have forgiven him? Considering how everyone turns on her a few episodes later for what they perceive to be bad leadership, do you think Buffy should have told him to leave?

 

[The Scourge]

If she can forgive him for drugging her to lose her powers so she can be locked in a room with a mater vampire then she can forgive him for anything.

 

[white avenger]

I would have forgiven Giles, certainly, but only after hammering the fact into his head like a railroad spike that, if he and Wood had succeeded in their little plot, they would have been doing exactly what the First Evil had tried to manipulate them into doing: killing one of the key contributors to their ultimate victory in the hellmouth, BEFORE he would have had a chance to save the day. But then I'm a petty, vindictive, evil old man who takes personal betrayal and attacks on people specifically under my protection very personally.

Buffy, on the other hand, almost certainly had forgiven Giles long before he ever apologized, assuming he ever even bothered to do so. As Giles pointed out to Ben, that's the kind of thing that Buffy does, even when she knows that there will be consequences, probably DIRE consequences, to face in the future by doing so.

 

[bottark]

If she can forgive him for drugging her to lose her powers so she can be locked in a room with a master vampire then she can forgive him for anything.

My exact thoughts. I feel that at that point in the show, after all they'd been through and all the numerous "betrayals" of each other, Buffy and Giles are stronger than that. She knows that Giles always intends the best no matter how horrible the means are. His actions in "Helpless" and "The Gift" (when he kills Ben since Buffy won't) are a strong testament to that, along with many other instances in which he performs the messy parts for Buffy and the universe's own good.

 

[Kean]

I would have forgiven Giles, certainly, but only after hammering the fact into his head like a railroad spike that, if he and Wood had succeeded in their little plot, they would have been doing exactly what the First Evil had tried to manipulate them into doing: killing one of the key contributors to their ultimate victory in the hellmouth, BEFORE he would have had a chance to save the day. But then I'm a petty, vindictive, evil old man who takes personal betrayal and attacks on people specifically under my protection very personally.

That's hardly who Spike was. Spike was being used as a tool by The First to distract, or possibly turn on Buffy. It was about Buffy, the same way it was when The First went after Angel. Sure, it haunted him, but the goal was for Buffy to be dead, Angel was who they intended to achieve that for them.

In S7 Spike was just the guy who got to wear the amulet. Three other people could have done it perfectly well. He wasn't acting out some destiny The First was trying to avoid. He wasn't this irreplaceable player. He did the job, but wasn't necessarily his job alone to do. Buffy, Angel or Faith could have done it just as well.

 

[Icarium]

If I were Buffy I would have killed Spike myself. Sorry, couldn't resist. 🙂

I would have forgiven Giles, certainly, but only after hammering the fact into his head like a railroad spike that, if he and Wood had succeeded in their little plot, they would have been doing exactly what the First Evil had tried to manipulate them into doing: killing one of the key contributors to their ultimate victory in the hellmouth, BEFORE he would have had a chance to save the day.

Considering that The First could have many times killed Spike itself, I am not sure what this would prove.

Buffy, Angel or Faith could have done it just as well.

Or any the dozens of newly created Slayers...

 

[white avenger]

That's hardly who Spike was. Spike was being used as a tool by The First to distract, or possibly turn on Buffy.

Whatever the First Evil did or did not have planned as Spike's ultimate use,the fact remains that Buffy considered him to be valuable to herself in her fight, and she had given specific orders that he was not to be harmed by Giles, the Scoobies, the Potentials, or anyone else, including Robin Wood. She considered herself to be, at that point, the unquestioned leader of the group, and she had issued specific instructions that Spike was her responsibility and no one else's. Agree with her actions in this matter or not, but that fact remains true: Buffy considered Spike to be under her protection, and therefore Giles and Robin were in violation of both her trust and her orders when they plotted to harm him, regardless of their motives.

For what it's worth, however, I do share your opinion that the First Evil was attempting to use Spike as a distraction and a wedge to drive between Buffy and her friends. The more disorganized and confused the group could be made, the better its chances would be of succeeding.

 

[Hawkbrother]

Like it was said, Buffy forgave Giles for some other mistakes. And he forgave her for some-like not saying Angel was back and having Xander having to be the one to break the shocking news(to him) of what he saw to the other Scoobies.
Turned out that in the end it was Spike who saved the day for wearing the amulet and helping put in an end to the first.
It is like Gollum in Lord of the Rings. He too was evil, but in the end jad an important part to play for good.

 

[AmelRIOT]

Me personally I would, someone posted on BB with a scene where Giles explains about Ben and killing him which would of be great to stay in. Both of them have done stupid stuff like Buffy lying to Giles in The Reptile Boy and many more but don't want to list. Giles is like Buffy's father he is there to protect her and thought Spike should die to protect her, even though I don't like Spike in the later seasons he was needed for the final battle. Season 7 everyone is confused what they are doing and this was a mistake for Giles.

 

[KellGreen]

Definitely, I think she would have forgiven him eventually. That is who i see her as: someone full of of love and forgiveness.

I think it was his personal betrayal of her, and how blatantly he lacked faith in her judgement, and ultimately in her, herself that hurt her the most.

Overall, though, I (honestly) dismiss this as another OOC bad writing thing. I just can't believe that, after everything they had been through together, and with how well he knows her, that Giles would really do that to Buffy.

 

[Tome]

If I was Buffy? As in if I was her but with my own personality? 😛 Just trying to get exactly what you meant. But anyway... If I was in her situation, I would have forgiven Giles most likely. I just can't hold a grudge for long, lol. I mean, he DID help Wood to try and kill her lover, and Giles in S7 was just a freaking prick, but yea... They went through so much stuff together, I think he deserved to be forgiven at some point.

 

[randiann]

Like it was said, Buffy forgave Giles for some other mistakes. And he forgave her for some-like not saying Angel was back and having Xander having to be the one to break the shocking news(to him) of what he saw to the other Scoobies.
Turned out that in the end it was Spike who saved the day for wearing the amulet and helping put in an end to the first.
It is like Gollum in Lord of the Rings. He too was evil, but in the end jad an important part to play for good.

This pretty much echoes my thoughts. They've each forgiven each other for a lot worse. Buffy forgave Giles for poisioning her, and Giles forgave Buffy for harboring the murderer of his girlfriend (two main ones I can think of right now). Dusting a pasty shell of a former badass vampire who Buffy was using as a crutch to enable her own self pity can hardly be seen as worse than poisioning and almost killing Buffy herself.

Although I do like Spike much more in Angel S5...glad he stuck around for that. I could do without him for the most part in Buffy S6 and S7 though (and S5 for that matter).

 

[Faith717132]

I would have

Yeah, I would have, most definetely would have forgave.

 

[tec]

Pepole mess up Buffy knows this better than anyone mistakes happen betral happens

But If Buffy can let Faith back into her home after what she did than anything goes

 

[Taake]

I think I would have, I would have been angry at first naturally, but since I could see where Giles was coming from (he did have a reason that was pretty valid even though Buffy didn't agree with it I think she was reasonable enough to understand his side once her feelings cooled about it all) I think that eventually I would have forgiven him.

Although I'm not sure I could ever look at him in quite the same way or trust him like I had before...

 

[YummySushiPJs]

If she can forgive him for drugging her to lose her powers so she can be locked in a room with a mater vampire then she can forgive him for anything.

I think a big part in her forgiveness of Giles for that, is that he was very reluctant to do it in the first place. We saw him object to Quentin about the "test" pretty much throughout the whole episode. I think he called it barbaric and cruel. He was forced to do it if he wanted to remain her watcher (obviously not knowing at that point that he was about to be sacked anyway for caring about Buffy too much!) so he did it because he didn't want to lose Buffy being in his life which he was scared would happen if he lost his job (as we later saw, it didn't). Buffy was still right to be mad with him though. Despite his objections, he still did it.

In the case with him and Wood wanting to kill Spike, while he's certainly not as gungho as Wood to kill Spike, he does believe very much that it's the right thing to do at that point. I'm not sure if that would make Buffy less or more mad than when he drugged her. What's worse, reluctantly doing something under objection that you know is wrong, or actively doing something that you think is right (but which you know others will think is wrong)? Hmmmm... I'm not sure what my point was going to be when I started this reply, but I've totally confused myself! 😕 :tongue3: