Illyria - An Unintentional Metaphor? Or Just Crazy Lee-Ness?

[Lee]

Ok...its amazing what you think of on the toilet...

Just before we get into this...remember that...Im not very bright, so...if this is all a big load of horse pooey...then...well...I apologise, lol...

But I was thinking about Illyria today, and...basically, what she was all about...

I started comparing Fred/Illyria to the life of a teenager, and it got me thinking, was Illyria an unintentional metaphor for the stereotypical teenager?

Ok...might not make much sense, but...I was thinking about how Fred changed into Illyria, and how teens change...they change their personality, their look, and their outlook on life...and those are all things that Illyria done, and was...

''Change is constant, yet things remain the same.''

Which...again...teenager...cuz they change, but they're still the same person inside...

Ok...either...Ive had too much coffee, and Illyria and coffee dont mix...and Im not making much sense or....well...thats pretty much the only option...

 

[LadyLavinia]

To me, Illyria is a symbol of Joss Whedon's inability to be original. I mean, really! Copying STAR TREK VOYAGER? What was he thinking?

 

[Kevin]

Ok...its amazing what you think of on the toilet...

Okay, moving swiftly on from the toliet...

Just before we get into this...remember that...Im not very bright, so...if this is all a big load of horse pooey...then...well...I apologise, lol...

Okay, we're back to Poo again now...

I started comparing Fred/Illyria to the life of a teenager, and it got me thinking, was Illyria an unintentional metaphor for the stereotypical teenager?

Illyria is a metaphore for all kinds of things, but you have hit the nail on the head here with one them.

Briefly, Season 5 of Angel was about change. What happens if the team have to work WITHIN the Big Bad. Wear the suites. Please the company. This is the ultimate living-in-your-20s metaphore.

Illyria? Fred is gone. Illyria is there. Her world has changed. She is forced to fit into this world. She doesn't know how. Gunn didn't know how to fit into W&H. Either did Lorne, nor Wes, nor Angel.

To me, Illyria is a symbol of Joss Whedon's inability to be original. I mean, really! Copying STAR TREK VOYAGER? What was he thinking?

There was no thought to copying Star Trek Voyager. I remember Tim (Minear) being accused of copying something called Forever Knight, as some of the vampire story lines apparently overlapped with Angel -- none of the writing staff even knew what Forever Knight was when accused of copying it.

 

[LadyLavinia]

Okay, moving swiftly on from the toliet...



Okay, we're back to Poo again now...



Illyria is a metaphore for all kinds of things, but you have hit the nail on the head here with one them.

Briefly, Season 5 of Angel was about change. What happens if the team have to work WITHIN the Big Bad. Wear the suites. Please the company. This is the ultimate living-in-your-20s metaphore.

Illyria? Fred is gone. Illyria is there. Her world has changed. She is forced to fit into this world. She doesn't know how. Gunn didn't know how to fit into W&H. Either did Lorne, nor Wes, nor Angel.



There was no thought to copying Star Trek Voyager. I remember Tim (Minear) being accused of copying something called Forever Knight, as some of the vampire story lines apparently overlapped with Angel -- none of the writing staff even knew what Forever Knight was when accused of copying it.

How do you know Whedon wasn't copying Seven-of-Nine? There are too many similarities between them for me to think otherwise.

 

[nerd4hire]

Actually Kevin, and who ever else might be interested, I think I can finally explain LL's obsession with the idea Illyria is a 7 of 9 clone.

Honestly it mystified me the first 40 or 50 times I heard it too.

I think what's bothering her is the fact that Illyria chose to devote her power to aid Angel and the others in their efforts to champion the cause of the good, rather than use her power for dark purposes. This is similar to what 7 or 9 does. I believe she sees them both as sellouts. In this way she sees them as clones.

Oh well...It's an opinion. Personally it's not my opinion, but it is an opinion.

 

[silvephantom]

I think that's a good point, Lee. But, alas, we will never know what goes on in that brilliant brain that is Joss's.

 

[LadyLavinia]

Actually Kevin, and who ever else might be interested, I think I can finally explain LL's obsession with the idea Illyria is a 7 of 9 clone.

Honestly it mystified me the first 40 or 50 times I heard it too.

I think what's bothering her is the fact that Illyria chose to devote her power to aid Angel and the others in their efforts to champion the cause of the good, rather than use her power for dark purposes. This is similar to what 7 or 9 does. I believe she sees them both as sellouts. In this way she sees them as clones.

Oh well...It's an opinion. Personally it's not my opinion, but it is an opinion.

Nerdforhire, I'm really trying not to laugh. Honestly. Stick with posting something you know, instead of speculations. I have posted time and again what I have against Illyria. Stop trying to second-guess me. You're not very good at it.

 

[Willow Rosenberg]

I think this thread was about Illyria being a metaphor for the stereotypical teenager, not her similarities or differences to a character on another show. Lets get back OT 😀

 

[nerd4hire]

Sorry about that Lady L.

I don't know what I was thinking. I must have gotten into a bad turnip or something.

I mean a person would have to be some kind of nut to think there was a plagiaristic similarity between Illyria and 7 of 9 based on the fact they both chose to be good.

In fact don't you kind of love that? I mean doesn't it just warm your heart the way both characters chose the path of the righteous?

 

[Jenny]

Lee very good observation!

I always akined the Fred/Illyria arc to the story of the Phoenix. The phoenix is reborn from the flames and ash into a beautiful creature. It's a symbol of re-birth.

That's what I think happened with Fred/Illyria. Even the way they had Illyria 'inhabit' Fred and then break free from her human shell.

This can absolutely be compared with your teenager analogy.

Fred is the young innocent child, and Illyria is the adolescent, coming into the world..like the phoenix! 😀

 

[nerd4hire]

Sorry Cordy. I posted before I saw yours. I'm going to leave it there to apologize to Lady Lavina because I may have appeared rude.

Back on subject then. You know another thing that kind of points to the teenage experience, is the whole peer pressure thing. I mean there's this group of cool, tough guys, and and on some level it almost feels like Illyria kind of cocks her head at them and goes "Wow. Way cool."