Illyria knew about vamps?

[Xin Rong]

OK i was just thinking vampires where supposedly created when the last pure demon left our world and illryiawas a pure blooded demon princess so she if she wasnt the last demon to leave our world then how did she know about vampires like angel and spike when she should have been dead?

 

[Xander]

Maybe she knew about the origins, like prior to nowaday vampires. Was it she knew about the Turok-Hans? Im a bit shakey on the memory of things.

 

[nerd4hire]

Here's a possibility.

Illyria's temple of Vahla Ha'nesh or whatever, is described as being "out of phase with our time stream", yet Illyria can cross over into it. Possible Conclusion: Illyria is capable of time travel.
:jawdrop:

 

[Croft Storm]

This was a conversation between illyria and angel in powerplay:

"Do you know what you were when I was young? You were the muck at our feet. We called you the ooze that eats itself. You were pretty at night. You sparkled, and you stank. You still stink of it!"
"Will you just shut up for once?"
"What?"
"My God, the speechifying. Has it ever occured to you that now might not be the best time for when-we-were-muck stories?"

So surely this suggests that vampires existed in illyrias time?

I didnt see this as a mistake because I didnt realise that illyria was a pure blood demon, I thought she was a god. Is she ever specifically referred to as a pure blood?

 

[nerd4hire]

Technically Illyria appears to be talking about the days of primordial ooze. That would be millions of years ago.

According to Joss Whedon's Fray comic book series The human-vampire hybrids of today's Buffyverse turned up around the time of the first slayer. I've heard estimates from fans of 10 to 50 thousand years ago for that.

Illyria may have been talking about the original vampires. There's no clear date I know of for their origin.

Illyria does refer to herself as "God-King of the primordia". On the other hand, I can't remember the exact quote, but I'm pretty sure characters did refer to the residents of the deeper well as Old Ones, which would be the original demons.

 

[Willow Rosenberg]

I'm pretty sure the references to Illyria as one of the "Old Ones" aka the Original Pure Demons, can be found in A Whole in the World or Shells...

 

[Jacklyn]

From Shells:

Illyria: The Wolf, Ram, and Hart? In my time, they were weak...barely above the vampire...
Knox: Well, uh, guess they beefed up...

This suggests that she did in fact know vampires which is an inconsistancy unless you consider Nerd4Hire's comment that she was kind of a time traveler...

 

[Willow Rosenberg]

DROGYN
I'll tell you as much as I can. The old ones were demons pure. They warred as we would breathe"”endlessly. The greater ones were interred, for death was not always their end. Illyria was feared and beloved as few are. It was laid to death in the very depths of the well... until it disappeared a month ago.

Source

 

[Xin Rong]

Maybe Illyria went into the deeper well thing before vamps existed but came back later, like she did in angel and saw vamps etc but then went back into the deeper well or maybe she exited our dimension for a while but returned later as we know not all of the old ones went into the deeper well some fled our dimension as we saw in fray

 

[WatcherWes]

I think she's referring to the primordial ancestor of the vampire, whatever species of demon that bit a human and started the vamp race.

 

[Jenny]

From Shells:

Illyria: The Wolf, Ram, and Hart? In my time, they were weak...barely above the vampire...
Knox: Well, uh, guess they beefed up...

This suggests that she did in fact know vampires which is an inconsistancy unless you consider Nerd4Hire's comment that she was kind of a time traveler...

Or that she's referring to the primordial ancestor of the vampire as WatcherWes so perfectly put it...or even the Turok-Han.

 

[nerd4hire]

I feel obliged to clarify my position here. I'm not necessarilly a proponent of the time warp theory. I just offer it as a possibility. I also recognize the "original vampire" theory, and mentioned it here.

Illyria may have been talking about the original vampires. There's no clear date I know of for their origin.

Or...maybe it was just one of those things they didn't think about much and slapped it in, in which case all we can do is choose the theory we like the best, and make sense of it for ouselves.

 

[Jenny]

I feel obliged to clarify my position here. I'm not necessarilly a proponent of the time warp theory. I just offer it as a possibility. I also recognize the "original vampire" theory, and mentioned it here.

Oh I got that. Thing I'm not sure on...if she WAS capable of time travel (and I totally thought she might be until I really thought about it) but if she was...wouldn't she just warp back to the past before her temple/kindgom/army was destroyed, before she was sentenced to the deeper well, and move on from there? Or bring them all back into the present time and reclaim her world?

 

[nerd4hire]

This isn't an excuse, (I actually agree with Jenny now), it's just a sidebar, but I wrote a fanfic one time where Illyria was originally sent to the Deeper Well for the crime of messing with time and dimensions. Not that that would ever be the case, but if it was, it might offer a possible explanaition for why she might not want (or be able) to mess with time travel today.

Again I'm not proposing the time travel theory as the answer, but I do think,If they were ever so inclined they could write the time theory in, and make it plausible.

 

[nerd4hire]

I do love that punishment theory! Who sent her there? Just curious who could punish a god of sorts.

Ever hear of the Magi (spelling?) and the Lorranites? In Fray they banished the original demons from the earthly dimension.

 

[Willow Rosenberg]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the episode Time Bomb about how Illyria COULD travel through time???

 

[nerd4hire]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the episode Time Bomb about how Illyria COULD travel through time???

Well yeah, but that wasn't so much an ability as an anomaly. Illyria's powers which include some kind of time warping power couldn't be contained in her human host or shell as she calls it. Near as I can figure the malfunction was causing some kind of power surge, buid-up and leakage that was in some way perverting the space-time continuum.

 

[Jenny]

Ever hear of the Magi (spelling?) and the Lorranites? In Fray they banished the original demons from the earthly dimension.

Fray is something I am DYING to get into/caught up on...because I am completely clueless but I hear you talk of it quite a bit and it's piqued my interest.

Cordelia - yes in Time Bomb...remember how Illyria thinks it's Angel and the Fang Gang that are messing with her, causing her to jump through time...she never had that ability. 🙂

 

[Cordelia Chase*]

I think she's referring to the primordial ancestor of the vampire, whatever species of demon that bit a human and started the vamp race.

That would have to be an ubervamp, they bit a human to carry on their race...