Illyria- Why?

nerd4hire said:
Isn't that interesting though. I don't find the introduction of an Old One an intrusion at all. For me it's more a case of "what took you so long?"

I don't know...maybe it's because I'm a Fray fanatic. To me the Old Ones are just an accepted fact of the verse like the slayer line.

To me they tie in nicely with the general theme of Season 5 - corruption in the quest for power. The Old Ones were demon power.

Also I think SlayerThe may be on to something when he calls their introduction "a piece of the puzzle".

Illyria was introduced after the Angel cancellation news. The re-emergence of the Old Ones back story may have been at least partially an emphasis on the chronology of the verse. An explanation, and a last goodbye.
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As far as I was concerned, the whole Illyria story arc was badly timed and badly written. And the last thing I wanted to deal with was an "Old One" with the personality of Seven-of-Nine. I'm glad that you enjoyed the character. Unfortunately, I cannot share your feelings.
 
LadyLavinia said:
And the last thing I wanted to deal with was an "Old One" with the personality of Seven-of-Nine. I
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You'll be hard pressed to find a character that is wholly original as I dont think it exists any more, theres been so many representations of people, animals, locations and even things like demons that you could pick apart any character and say "this person has a bit of... and .... and ..." doesn't make them worse off for it.

Im no Star Trek fan, in fact I really find it yawn but reading a bio of her it seems that S-o-N was an original character. What I like about Illyria is she is not so much of a new character but an extension of Fred. Her interaction with Wes and the way it touched upon how Fred was made it much more interesting. If she was meerly a new character it would of been empty but with the audience's knowledge of the previous 3 years makes it much more dramatic. And if im wrong and she was another character "transformed" (as so to speak) into S-o-N don't get all grr, I did say I dont know about the show.

My media homework (which I so should do but cant be bothered) is to find ways in which the representation of Buffy is not an original representation but to provide proof for the postmodern theory that all representations are simulacras, representations of representations. As stated I havn't really done it but one off the top of my head is one of the original representations originates from "Bride of Frankenstein". The bride was made to meet the men's needs (companion for the beast of frankenstein), similarly the slayer was made to meet the men's needs (kill demons, vampires etc).
 
illyria

i love illyria. she is such a cool character, i really think she would of been explained in season 6.. but it was'nt to be. as for amy acker she is fantastic as fred/illyria. the way she switches between the 2 is amazing. the death scene between wesley.. illyria/fred was soooooo sad. which never would of happened if angel had'nt been axed🙁 amy is soooooo sweet(and tall)
 
You know my first reaction to the idea Joss Whedon stole the character of Illyria from Seven of Nine was to smile, and move on to the next post. I find it hard to take the idea seriously.

But what the Hell. If we're going to see it constantly put forward as an incontrovertible fact, let's consider it.

First of all it's factually wrong in it's premise. It suggests the proposition 7 of 9 is herself an original character. She is no more original in the essence of the character than Illyria is. She is the female equivalent of Data, who is the android equivalent of Spock.

What all 4 characters have in common is they are all examples of non or para human characters possessing super-human capabalities, who are repelled in some way, by or from the human condition, while being at the same time attracted to it.

So did the Star Trek franchise invent that character prototype? They did not.

You can see the same kind of Character in comic books with characters like The Silver Surfer, or The Vision from The Avengers Series.

In fact considering we know Joss Whedon grew up a comic book fan, I would suggest if we were looking for a source to Joss's inspiration for Illyria we should probably look first to comics.

Even so Comics themselves did not invent the character prototype described here. It's mythic. You see it in characters like Achilles and Heracles from Greek myths.
 
If I recall correctly, in an interview with Angel Magazine Amy said that Joss told her when playing Illyria think Queen Elizabeth meets the Terminator. I think that description fits pretty well. Illyria and Fred are my absolute favourite character(s) in the entire Whedonverse and I believe Illyria perfectly ties in. When they said Old One my eyes just went all wide with joy. I had been waiting to hear more on it and then bam! I think also that Amy is an amazing actress, so no LadyLavinia, I don't think Joss was desperate to keep Amy Employed. I think that he was smart to. She is one of the best actresses I've seen to date.
 
Kaden said:
If I recall correctly, in an interview with Angel Magazine Amy said that Joss told her when playing Illyria think Queen Elizabeth meets the Terminator. I think that description fits pretty well. Illyria and Fred are my absolute favourite character(s) in the entire Whedonverse and I believe Illyria perfectly ties in. When they said Old One my eyes just went all wide with joy. I had been waiting to hear more on it and then bam! I think also that Amy is an amazing actress, so no LadyLavinia, I don't think Joss was desperate to keep Amy Employed. I think that he was smart to. She is one of the best actresses I've seen to date.
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One, Amy Acker is not one of the best actresses around. She's not even one of the best Jossverse actresses. I can name several who are better. Two, Illyria still smacks of Seven-of-Nine to me. What makes it worse is that her character didn't serve much purpose during the latter half of the season, other than kill off Fred (who was nothing more than a plot device) and spur Angel into ruthlessness during the series' last two episodes.

And yes, Whedon should have gotten rid of Acker when he had the chance - namely Season 3. Playing Fred and Illyria seemed like a waste of her time and talent.
 
LadyLavinia said:
One, Amy Acker is not one of the best actresses around. She's not even one of the best Jossverse actresses. I can name several who are better. Two, Illyria still smacks of Seven-of-Nine to me. What makes it worse is that her character didn't serve much purpose during the latter half of the season, other than kill off Fred (who was nothing more than a plot device) and spur Angel into ruthlessness during the series' last two episodes.

And yes, Whedon should have gotten rid of Acker when he had the chance - namely Season 3. Playing Fred and Illyria seemed like a waste of her time and talent.
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Well that is your opinion. Doesn't make it fact. My opinion isn't fact either. In fact I presented my opinions as just that. Opinions. I made no effort to state my views as cold hard facts. The way you state your opinions is as if they are the absolute honest to god truth to end all truthes. That isn't a very good way to win a debate. Only makes you come off as an arrogent, know-it-all.

Now I am not trying to start a fight by saying that. Just suggesting that maybe you could a little more civil-minded when making your points. People may be more apt to agree with you if you are nicer in your presentation and not trying to present opinion as cold hard facts
 
LadyLavinia said:
One, Amy Acker is not one of the best actresses around. She's not even one of the best Jossverse actresses. I can name several who are better. Two, Illyria still smacks of Seven-of-Nine to me. What makes it worse is that her character didn't serve much purpose during the latter half of the season, other than kill off Fred (who was nothing more than a plot device) and spur Angel into ruthlessness during the series' last two episodes.

And yes, Whedon should have gotten rid of Acker when he had the chance - namely Season 3. Playing Fred and Illyria seemed like a waste of her time and talent.
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Speaking of opinions 🙂 in my opinion, that was another great thing about the Illyria character. It allowed Acker to show the full range of her talent, and I have to agree with the many who believe it is impressive.

I commend LL to changing her viewpoint that Illyria is a badly written clone of 7 of 9, from the fact she originally stated it as, to a personal opinion. Good for you. You're starting to get it. Keep up the good work. 😀

Here's another opinion I disagree with,


Quote from LL

"What makes it worse is that her character didn't serve much purpose during the latter half of the season, other than kill off Fred (who was nothing more than a plot device) and spur Angel into ruthlessness during the series' last two episodes."

That is also believe it or not, just an opinion. Personally, in my opinion, I find plot devices important, and spurring Angel into ruthlessness integral to the central theme of Season 5 - Power corrupts.
 
Xander said:
Okay, Illyria's return was predestined, thats fine. But why?
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I guess that story is cut off in mid for they cancelled the show, if there were a sixth season, I am sure that we would learn why.
 
I think that Illyria was brought back in Fred because lets face it, in The Apocalypse, as if Fred would survive. Fred's character had gone a bit dry and yeah, it was her time to go evil (who hasn't on BTVS or ATS?) but poor innocent Fred wouldnt ever go bad, so they needed a demon to do it for them.. I think Illyria was a great character who really spiced the show up a lot and all of you who said she had no purpose in the season, please tell me, did Spike? or Lorne? No they didn't, I think we are lucky to be able to be watching such good shows, so stop this Illyria bashing.
 
It was a plot device.. sometihng to add drama and a new elemnet to the series. I mean think... why did the monks turn the key into Dawn specifically in S5 of BTVS. I mean sure they say so Buffy will protect it, but it was really just a way bringing in a new chracter that Joss wanted in the series. Sometimes as fans I think we can get too caught up with having deeper explainations for why things happen. It was interesting and fun to watch. I'd say that's the reason for Ilyria. She ended up helping them in that last battle, so maybe that's your destiny kind of reason for it. Maybe all that was so she could help them in their fight. I mean that's basically why Angel got a soul. Same vauge 'to fight evil' kind of reason. They had five seasons to explain Angel's destiny and the most we ever really got was that he was supposed to 'play a role in the apocalypse'.
 
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