I'm Back, Baby!: Resurrections

thetopher

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
12,619
Location
The Moot, England
Sineya
So when is it acceptable to bring a character back into the Buffyverse after they've been dramtically killed off/nobly sacrificed themselves, and when is it just a cheap story-telling trick?

Who had the most dramatically successful resurrection on the show(s)? Darla? Angel? Buffy? Spike?

And now we're having them in the comics as well. Are they done worse in the comics or better? Giles for example, or does ghost Anya count?

Anybody you wish hadn't been brought back? Anybody you're hoping will be brought back?
 
I would say that having Buffy 'come back' through CPR was cool. Anything else kind of makes me wrinkle my nose a little even if I do want the character to return.

As for favorites - the raising of Darla seemed magically intricate, even for Wolfram and Hart and I did really like that resurrection because there was an element of surprise to it and I thought it was a great storyline.

I kind of dislike both Angel coming back in Btvs s3 and Spike on Ats s5 because there is not really much beauty to the storytelling. They're brought back because the writers and the viewers wanted the characters back. Which to me kind of cheapens their death in the first place. Why go through the dance if you're not going to follow through, y'know? I put Buffy's return in season 6 in this category too.

By now though I think the Buffyverse in general has so cheapened the concept of a character dying that it's not dramatic or powerful anymore to see a character die (they have to come up with lame excuses like a soul being devoured in the "fires of resurrection" or whatever they say about Fred just to defend keeping a character dead!). It's just an endless cycle of killing off/bringing back.

A resurrection should be the exception to the rule, not the rule...
 
Spike was the one I hated the most. There was absolutely no reason for him to be brought back, other than the network holding Joss to ransom. Spike had one of the most noble deaths on the show, he became a real hero at the end, and I feel that bringing him back negated a lot of that. I'm not a Spike fan as you all know, and I don't think he's done anything particularly unforgivable since his return, but I do think that it's hard to top sacrificing yourself to save the world - something that Buffy has also had to contend with.

Speaking of Buffy, the older I get and the more I talk about the show, the more I wish the show had ended with 'The Gift'. It was the perfect ending for Buffy, the woman, not the Slayer. She fought so hard against what she was and she was so adamant that she wouldn't go out that way, that she wouldn't give up her life to a war she didn't want to fight. By having her die to save her sister, it was the perfect way out for Buffy, because we know that family is more important to Buffy than anything else. Bringing Buffy back...I just hated that her perfect ending was thrown away.

Angel's resurrection I think worked for the character and where the show was at the time. In fact, I think it was the ONLY resurrection that worked in favor of either of the shows, because it added an element to S3 that would have been severely lacking without it.
 
Skanky Vamp
Skanky Vamp
Perfect ending thrown away.. agree totally. It was an organic way for the show to end. And an iconic image as well.
Not a fan of resurrection, I think they are only acceptable when the character isn't really dead, more like in the case where the character is send to a different dimension, or where the death is really ambiguous like Fred's. I think Buffy's resurrection was good because it actually had consequences. If you're gonna bring back a character, make it obvious that resurrection is a bad thing, or else death will mean nothing in the verse.

I don't like how they brought back Angel in s3, I think it diminished the story. That is partially why I don't like Angel that much in BtVS. AtS is a different story, I get that Angel was a great character and had a story to tell. But the whole resurrection trope I just didn't like, even if in the long run it was for the best. The only way I can kind of accept it is that Angel was in a different dimension, and wasn't truly dead I guess.

Spike, not a fan, should have stayed dead (and again same as Angel, I love Spike's storyline in s5 of AtS, I think he brings such great dynamic, and it actually makes sense how W&H tried to trap Angel but got Spike instead. Again could be said that he didn't truly died.) But meh, at that point they had brought back a lot of characters from the dead.

Darla is again, in the same boat. I am SO glad they brought her back, her arc is one of the best on AtS and they made her character flipping awesome. But it's frustrating that a resurrection was needed.

Although Cordy wasn't really resurrected, they ascended her character and brought her back, and it pretty much ruined her character.

Ghost I'm okay with, makes for an interesting story, but again it shouldn't be used too much. I like what they did with Wes, or Lilah and W&H.

I agree with Taake, it should be the exception to the rule, not the rule. And here the exception is when a character dies and stays dead.
 
I'm not a fan of resurrection in general but if it leads to elegant and interesting stories and character development - whatever, dig them out you cheap hacks. Sadly, BtVS rarely delivers. Take Giles, the latest resurrection. We're almost halfway into season 10 and I still don't see the point. Why do you bring back characters if you don't know what to do with them?
 
The Bronze
The Bronze
Yeah it looks like Giles is there for decoration
For me, I don't judge the resurrection until I see what stories come out of the aftermath, so that would be a yes to Buffy's first death (we get the whole 'other slayer' plot-line which was genius) but didn't really like her second one (overall I disliked the depression arc)

Yes to Angel and Darla (because the first got his own awesome tv show and the second enriched two seasons of that show with her presence/plotlines)

But no to Spike (after Angel season 5 it was clear that nobody has any idea what to do with the character- he certainly hasn't topped his sacrificing himself to save the world. Now he just...hangs about.)

I used to think Giles resurrection was a good- and the build up was well handled in A&F- it was a decent enough plot, but so far his presence in Buffy seems to be 'Giles is here so we can have the "whole set" of the old gang- which seems like a wasted opportunity. Still, there aren't as many boob gags as I feared...

Ghost Anya...Anya didn't add anything to show when she was alive (apart from some much needed comedy sometimes) I don't yearn to see her return.


To be honest they've got too many extranous characters in the 'verse to begin with (it's like X-Men-itis, where new characters are introduced and then most of them are forgotten about because they're lame, so they just hang about and clog up the 'verse)- some of them need to be killed off right the hell now.

I'm looking at characters like Harmony, Drusilla, Andrew, Billy, Buffy's roommates (I don't even remember who they were), Kennedy- anyone who doesn't ADD anything. C'mon let the culling comence! 😀
 
thetopher said:
I'm looking at characters like Harmony, Drusilla, Andrew, Billy, Buffy's roommates (I don't even remember who they were), Kennedy- anyone who doesn't ADD anything.
Click to expand...

I agree. We're not in the realm of television anymore - the page space is too scarce to handle such numerous cast. Personally, I'd get rid or at least limit the involvement of everyone who's not Buffy, Willow, Xander and their current love interest. OK, I admit, I'm on the fence with Spike.
 
I've gone off a couple of supernatural shows, in part because resurrections became so regular that there ended up being a real blasé attitude towards main character death, to the point where it felt like there were no real stakes anymore. Buffy wasn't one of them, but I'm unsure how I feel about certain occasions.
While I enjoyed Spike in season 5 of Ats, watching his final scene in "Chosen" just doesn't have anywhere near the same weight. I could understand someone feeling the same about Angel in s2-3, but I suppose I didn't feel that the same, because I came to the series a bit late and therefore knew Angel would come back the first time I watched "Becoming", whereas in Spike's case, as far as I knew, that moment in "Chosen" really was his last.

I don't read the comics anymore, but from the sounds of it, they've gone overboard bringing characters back from the dead. I heard that Anya came back as a ghost and that Giles was resurrected as a little boy. So I guess Tara is the only Scoobie who's actually stayed dead and gone (unless there's something I don't know).
 
Anything used to access loses all sense of importance, and the death/resurrection cycles in the Buffyverse went beyond ridiculous, all the way to downright absurd. Buffy "died" and was brought back by CPR, fine. Angel never was dead in the first place. A steel sword through the chest might hurt a vampire, but it could never kill him, therefore his return never was an actual resurrection, just a ripoff of the "Terminator" time travel effect. Beyond those two, all of the other deaths on the show were cheapened simply because we all knew that the odds favored that character returning, good as new, which gave the term "death" in the Buffyverse the same reaction as the cry of "wolf" did in the old fable.
 
I'm not in favor of it really. Angel is one the exceptions, but he was never technically dead (er...I mean, more dead than he already was😛), and we got an awesome spin off out of it. So in his case, the pluses far outweigh the minuses. The other one is Darla, who wasn't exactly a popular or well developed character when she was killed the first time, so I don't think her resurrection cheapened anything. In fact, far more was gained than lost as she went on to become one of the best characters in either show.

But the main two who I dislike are Buffy and Spike. Buffy had a beautifully done death scene in "the Gift," and since that was originally planned to be the finale, I can see why Joss put a lot of effort into it. Obviously, they had to bring her back if the show was going to continue, but not only did they cheapen her death, they didn't really do anything worthwhile with her. She was done, and they just exaggerated her flaws until she became a character that was really difficult to like. As for Spike, his death scene was one of the few times I really liked his character in the final seasons, and the maturity he gained there all but vanished in AtS season 5. He really hasn't done anything noteworthy ever since, so what was the point?

I'm glad the planned resurrection of Tara didn't pan out because that would have been ridiculously cheap. I also have to wonder if Angel had gotten a sixth season how many resurrections we would have gotten. It would be hard to continue the series without half the main cast, so I'm guessing the writers would have been tempted.
 
I don't mind any of the resurrections per se.
Never thought that they cheapens or diminish the deaths in any way.
For me is the season 2 ending is just as powerful and brilliant even though I know Angel will return.

But I do think they could've made more of a story with most of the resurrections instead of just randomly bring people back.

Angel, Spike and Darla all just reappeared without any efforts from the gang.
Season 6 Buffy had at least some story behind it even though I think it would've been cool to have her dead for a couple of episodes while we saw them dealing and working on a solution.
Giles being a good exception here with a decent story behind the comeback.

It would of course had been a bit much to do like 5 arcs about bringing back people from the dead though... 🙂

/SK
 
Taake said:
I kind of dislike both Angel coming back in Btvs s3 and Spike on Ats s5 because there is not really much beauty to the storytelling. They're brought back because the writers and the viewers wanted the characters back. Which to me kind of cheapens their death in the first place. Why go through the dance if you're not going to follow through, y'know? I put Buffy's return in season 6 in this category too.
Click to expand...

For all of the credit that Whedon gets (and that Whedon gave for himself in interviews) for being singularly unique for being so willing and capable of killing off any character no matter who they were, he sure was fast to yield to fan interests and pressure to resurrect extremely popular characters. After Spike especially (and others too), watching those old interviews of Whedon patting himself on the back and feeling so proud of himself (for the former) makes me roll my eyes, so here it is 🙄🙄🙄. Those are for you Mr. Whedon.
 
Buffy - season one - a lot of build up, which I love, but I was toseed out by Angel panting that he had no breath. Buffy - season 6 - I like this one because it actually explores the fact that returning from death does create more than a few problems.. I can live with the idea that it's a mystical death with a mystical solution. I see what people mean when they say they wish the show had ended at season 5. I tend to see season 6&7 as something of a sequel since they are very different in tone and story.

I've mentioned more than once that I don't think stringing out the Buffy/Angel angst was effective in season three, but I want Angel to have his own show, so fan service that I don't like gives me something I do like. Technically speaking this wasn't a resurrection, just a dimension hop so I didn't have that much problem with the logistics. And that soaked, naked body....supreme eye candy!

Darla was really fantastic - brought back for a reason, and used W&H to get what she wanted. I love Darla in AtS. She is the original small and strong blond that set the pattern for Angel's type. And I think she is actually the love of Angel's life. He's only known Buffy for 8 years, and he may know her another 50 or so but he was with Darla for over a century, and she gave him Connor.

Speaking of small blondes, I agree Spike burning to death is cheapened by bringing him back. But I like the implications as to what was planned for Angel. Even if Angel did chose to wear the amulet and die he would have been brought back as a ghost under the thumb of W&H, The keys to the kingdom don't apply to a ghost, and the souled vampire is no longer an issue. And I love Angel and Spike - both bickering and supporting each other.

Tara and Joyce remained dead, as did Jenny Calendar, Darla the 2nd time, Doyle, and more than a few named characters like Jesse. So, technically speaking there were more that remained dead than were resurrected. Weak point - I know. I don't read the comics so not going there.
 
bespangeled said:
Tara and Joyce remained dead, as did Jenny Calendar, Darla the 2nd time, Doyle, and more than a few named characters like Jesse. So, technically speaking there were more that remained dead than were resurrected. Weak point - I know. I don't read the comics so not going there.
Click to expand...

Agree that more remained dead than were resurrected but I do still think that there have been too many resurrections and that it's kind of become a go-to move a bit, meaning there's always the question of a character will be brought back and if they aren't then it has to be explained why they're not.

I mean Willow did try to resurrect Tara there in the bedroom but she failed. Joyce was technically brought back as some kind of zombie, only Dawn ripped the picture before we saw anything. Darla remained dead but was brought back as a ghost to talk to Connor. Doyle was originally supposed to come back for Angel season 5.

Even when these plots failed or never appeared it shows that there's a pattern of relying on that kind of storytelling, of removing a character for 'impact' and then just bringing them back. It weakens the importance of character deaths in my opinion.
 
Taake said:
Agree that more remained dead than were resurrected but I do still think that there have been too many resurrections and that it's kind of become a go-to move a bit, meaning there's always the question of a character will be brought back and if they aren't then it has to be explained why they're not.

I mean Willow did try to resurrect Tara there in the bedroom but she failed. Joyce was technically brought back as some kind of zombie, only Dawn ripped the picture before we saw anything. Darla remained dead but was brought back as a ghost to talk to Connor. Doyle was originally supposed to come back for Angel season 5.

Even when these plots failed or never appeared it shows that there's a pattern of relying on that kind of storytelling, of removing a character for 'impact' and then just bringing them back. It weakens the importance of character deaths in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I completely agree - I was being kinda tongue in cheek. We have 5 that stayed dead and 4 that were resurrected. Actually, since Buffy died twice I guess that makes it an even chance you'll resurrect. I'd take those odds. 😛
 
Dont forget the Master.. his cronies were going to resurrect him in the second season.
 
SiegePerilous02 said:
I'm not in favor of it really. Angel is one the exceptions, but he was never technically dead (er...I mean, more dead than he already was😛), and we got an awesome spin off out of it. So in his case, the pluses far outweigh the minuses. The other one is Darla, who wasn't exactly a popular or well developed character when she was killed the first time, so I don't think her resurrection cheapened anything. In fact, far more was gained than lost as she went on to become one of the best characters in either show.

But the main two who I dislike are Buffy and Spike. Buffy had a beautifully done death scene in "the Gift," and since that was originally planned to be the finale, I can see why Joss put a lot of effort into it. Obviously, they had to bring her back if the show was going to continue, but not only did they cheapen her death, they didn't really do anything worthwhile with her. She was done, and they just exaggerated her flaws until she became a character that was really difficult to like. As for Spike, his death scene was one of the few times I really liked his character in the final seasons, and the maturity he gained there all but vanished in AtS season 5. He really hasn't done anything noteworthy ever since, so what was the point?

I'm glad the planned resurrection of Tara didn't pan out because that would have been ridiculously cheap. I also have to wonder if Angel had gotten a sixth season how many resurrections we would have gotten. It would be hard to continue the series without half the main cast, so I'm guessing the writers would have been tempted.
Click to expand...

I remember when I was first watching Season 3 of Buffy trying to figure just how they brought Angel back. After awhile just came to the conclusion that he was returned to redeem himself. And the show did leave it open for the audience to come to their own conclusions which was a good thing.

The Spike resurrection is interesting. His involvement in Angel was one of the best things about the final season as it was fresh, and they did have unfinished business. But I also agree that his ending in Buffy was so impressive than I can see the other side to it too.

It would had been interesting to have seen them try to do Buffy without her if she had stayed dead post-season five with just the odd appearance as a ghost. But, then a further two seasons may have been hard to sustain like that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom