I'm Willow From 'Pangs'

[Pike]

Is anybody else one of these? Or maybe the complete opposite?

When it comes to holidays or things alike, I find myself the bitter one. While I love the holidays and celebrate each one to the full extent with my family, wife, and children.. I still find myself being bitter over small things when it comes to the holidays. For example, the holiday of Thanksgiving doesn't do much of anything for me while its some of my friend's favorite. I don't get big into the 'being thankful' part on this specific day when there is the rest of the year to acknowledge that. The part where I relate to Willow would be from Season Four, when she is bitter towards the Pilgrim/Native American history. While we currently celebrate the two coming together in our schools, the history of one race of people nearly wiping out another is crazy. This continues through Christmas. I love christmas and almost no one gets more into that holiday more than me. We decorate, we sing songs, we watch every holiday movie.. however, I am biter over the war between 'Keeping CHRIST in Christmas' and 'Happy Holidays.' I strongly side to one and not the other. I sometimes wish I could just enjoy things like this, haha. A word is a word is a word, ya know?

Anyone else find themselves getting wrapped up in these silly little things?

 

[kittenpoker]

I think it's a complicated issue.... historical reality - and what we choose to make of meaning now....

for example - I choose to make thanksgiving not about the pilgrims and the indians (and the raping of an indigenous culture etc....) but about just being with people you love and giving thanks for life and for love - and for - all the gifts that those bring.

And as far as christmas.... hahaha - believe me, I've seen both sides, and where I arrive is - "thank you for the warm wishes!" be it merry christmas or happy holidays or whatever.... It's the kind sentiment that counts.

 

[BuffyElevated]

As far as Thanksgiving, I think of the holiday as more of a day to celebrate and enjoy the things you are thankful for, whether it be your family and friends, or just chilling at your house watching TV all day. 🙂 I think the sentiment of the pilgrims and Indians coming together to dine and make merry is nice, but we all know how that turned out. So instead of dwelling on the past, I choose to be thankful for the things I have here and now- but I do agree with [MENTION=11281]Pike[/MENTION] that you should be doing that all year long instead of just 1 day a year. 😉
As far as other holidays, I am very protective of things like the true meaning of Christmas (Christ's birthday, not Santa). Pike and I actually kinda exchanged words already on Facebook today after I shared this article by Ben Stein:

My confession:

I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejewelled trees, Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are, Christmas trees.

It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, “Merry Christmas” to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a crib, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren't allowed to worship God? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to.

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her: “How could God let something like this happen?” (regarding Hurricane Katrina). Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said: “I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?”

In light of recent events... terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found a few years ago) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbour as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave, because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said okay.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing yet?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.

Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Pass it on if you think it has merit.

If not, then just discard it.... no one will know you did. But if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.

My Best Regards, Honestly and respectfully,

Ben Stein

I totally agree with Ben Stein; I think this article is brilliant and extremely well-said. That being said, I am not overly religious. I'm not going to get all pissed off if people insist on saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas", because I realize that not everyone celebrates the same holidays. This time of year, there are lots of holidays being celebrated and everyone should be able to do so and enjoy them.

However, it REALLY irks me when people call Christmas trees "holiday trees". When I heard the White House was calling the Christmas trees "holiday trees", it really pissed me off because I feel like by doing that, they are spitting in the face of Christians.

No other religious holidays are attacked and commercialized the way that Christian holidays are. Jewish people don't have their menorahs being called "holiday candelabras" and being placed on everyone's tables or in their windows. Same thing with the Kwanza kinara... I wouldn't put those up in my home, and claim they were just regular holiday candles.

I'm just sick of the world trying to commercialize Christian holidays. I'm not religious, but I am spiritual and I just don't understand why, if none of the other religious holidays are made so secular, Christmas, Easter, etc. have to be made so secular and commercialized.

 

[sisterofmercy]

I'm British and an atheist so as far as I'm concerned, Christmas is about presents, nice food and seeing the family.

Christ wasn't even technically born in December anyway and it stretches back to a Pagan festival, so I don't see why people shouldn't make christmas their own. I know Muslims who hang christmas lights and celebrate in their own style, which I think is lovely. It doesn't hurt anyone and I think we all need something to be cheery about at this time of year, when there's like 5 hours of daylight and freezing temperatures.

I did the whole fake Christian thing when I was in choir and although the Nine Lessons services were beautiful, it's just far too much effort to do every year. If people want to do it though then that's fair enough. I just think some people like looking for things to be outraged about and miss the point that it can be a positive experience even if it's not done exactly the way you think it should be.

 

[Taake]

I'm definitely Spike in "Pangs", I'm so on his side: "You won. All right? You came in and you killed them and you took their land. That's what conquering nations do. It's what Caesar did, and he's not goin' around saying, "I came, I conquered, I felt really bad about it." The history of the world is not people making friends. You had better weapons, and you massacred them. End of story. "

The historical aspects of our holidays are just one side of the coin, what we do with them now is what matters... so to each his own as long as you don't try to force it upon anyone else (by now we should know better...)


As for me I love holidays, they don't make me bitter at all no matter what religious/pagan/secular tradition they hail from. 🙂 Typically I use the time to just enjoy some extra time with my family and I'm all for anything that makes people slightly more congenial and happy. Also they're just cosy, we all have special traditions small or big and it's just... nice to have that comfort during the year. I always feel reminded not to think so much of myself, the holiday spirit can be a beautiful thing 🙂


Although for me, being Swedish, I can't help but not associate holidays with anything religious. Christmas never makes me think of Christ (whose name was implemented to the holiday around the 4th Centruy C.E. by the Romans) but it never makes me think of Saturnalia either... for me it's a family holiday, much needed as a break during the very very dark months here.
Side note: Although I do love the How I met your mother joke when Ted say it's about "More Christ" Christ mà¡s..

Other holidays (with the exception of Midsummer and Walpurgis) I tend not to celebrate at all

- I can never remember what Easter is about (except for the fact that as kids we would dress up as witches and ask for candy and there was some part about scaring the witches away I believe),
-Thanksgiving we don't celebrate here,
-Halloween (or Samhain whatever... just an excuse to dress up in costumes and watch scary movies which I love but only do if I have the strenght)
-Pentecost (I had no idea why this was a holiday and I called my friends around all who guessed "it had something to do with Jesus?")

Are there even more holidays? I'm not sure, but to me - regardless of what historical background they have or what makes you celebrate them - I still think of it as a nice break from routines and they always tend to be very cultural (an American Christmas compared to a Swedish Christmas would no doubt be very different even if it's technically the same holiday) which makes them interesting and informative and can teach you a lot about other cultures and peoples 😀

 

[TotallySpiked]

I'm definitely Spike in "Pangs", I'm so on his side: "You won. All right? You came in and you killed them and you took their land. That's what conquering nations do. It's what Caesar did, and he's not goin' around saying, "I came, I conquered, I felt really bad about it." The history of the world is not people making friends. You had better weapons, and you massacred them. End of story. "

Yep. Watching 'Pangs' tomorrow. Haha.

 

[randiann]

I don't get bitter over Thanksgiving. Instead I take it as an opportunity to go visit with family, eat good food, and be merry. I do get irked with how it is taught in our public schools though, and my son and I have had several talks about what Thanksgiving is really about and how "Indians" don't look like little cartoons with feathers sticking out everywhere. I get irked with how public schools teach anything related to Native Americans because it is so stereotypical and generic, not just on Thanksgiving. Instead of getting caught up with what "was" and how it is portrayed, let's reclaim Thanksgiving and make it about friends and family now.

Nittak Fvkit Chukma! Happy Turkey Day!

 

[sisterofmercy]

CHRISTMAS was created to celebrate Christ's birthday. If people want to celebrate a holiday, why not say they're celebrating the Yuletide?

Because it's just a word, one which has several layers of meaning these days whether people like it or not. 'Yuletide' would have been fine a few hundred years ago but it's too archaic for me to use. I use 'christmas' because I've been brought up that way (my parents didn't do the religion thing either thankfully but I do live in a supposedly Christian country) and it sounds better to say, but we treat it as a cultural thing rather than anything spiritual. I don't hold it against those who do treat it as a strictly Christian thing though, that's their prerogative.

It may primarily be about Christianity, but for others it just means a time to celebrate and be merry. As we have become more secular as a society, things adopt different meanings. Just because others use the word in a slightly different context doesn't mean there's a problem, that's just how language works over time.

My using 'christmas' for secular purposes doesn't stop other people from celebrating in their own way, why does it matter? I don't care what other people do, I will drink, eat and enjoy it just as much eitherway. Life is too short to care about things so trivial.

 

[Abbeycat]

I wouldn't say bitter...

I get drained and overwhelmed being surrounded by people. Even when I don't talk as much.

 

[VisionGirl]

I don't get bitter over Thanksgiving. Instead I take it as an opportunity to go visit with family, eat good food, and be merry. I do get irked with how it is taught in our public schools though, and my son and I have had several talks about what Thanksgiving is really about and how "Indians" don't look like little cartoons with feathers sticking out everywhere. I get irked with how public schools teach anything related to Native Americans because it is so stereotypical and generic, not just on Thanksgiving. Instead of getting caught up with what "was" and how it is portrayed, let's reclaim Thanksgiving and make it about friends and family now.

Nittak Fvkit Chukma! Happy Turkey Day!

Especially in our state Randi! People do NOT know their own heritage and that bugs me!

 

[SlayerFest]

Is anybody else one of these? Or maybe the complete opposite?

When it comes to holidays or things alike, I find myself the bitter one. While I love the holidays and celebrate each one to the full extent with my family, wife, and children.. I still find myself being bitter over small things when it comes to the holidays. For example, the holiday of Thanksgiving doesn't do much of anything for me while its some of my friend's favorite. I don't get big into the 'being thankful' part on this specific day when there is the rest of the year to acknowledge that. The part where I relate to Willow would be from Season Four, when she is bitter towards the Pilgrim/Native American history. While we currently celebrate the two coming together in our schools, the history of one race of people nearly wiping out another is crazy. This continues through Christmas. I love christmas and almost no one gets more into that holiday more than me. We decorate, we sing songs, we watch every holiday movie.. however, I am biter over the war between 'Keeping CHRIST in Christmas' and 'Happy Holidays.' I strongly side to one and not the other. I sometimes wish I could just enjoy things like this, haha. A word is a word is a word, ya know?

Anyone else find themselves getting wrapped up in these silly little things?

Every year I go on and on about how Thanksgiving is a total "yam sham" and I make this video my Facebook status:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VbYZDohsHk"]Addams Family Values[/ame]

---------- Post added at 11:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 PM ----------

As far as Thanksgiving, I think of the holiday as more of a day to celebrate and enjoy the things you are thankful for, whether it be your family and friends, or just chilling at your house watching TV all day. 🙂 I think the sentiment of the pilgrims and Indians coming together to dine and make merry is nice, but we all know how that turned out. So instead of dwelling on the past, I choose to be thankful for the things I have here and now- but I do agree with [MENTION=11281]Pike[/MENTION] that you should be doing that all year long instead of just 1 day a year. 😉
As far as other holidays, I am very protective of things like the true meaning of Christmas (Christ's birthday, not Santa). Pike and I actually kinda exchanged words already on Facebook today after I shared this article by Ben Stein:



I totally agree with Ben Stein; I think this article is brilliant and extremely well-said. That being said, I am not overly religious. I'm not going to get all pissed off if people insist on saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas", because I realize that not everyone celebrates the same holidays. This time of year, there are lots of holidays being celebrated and everyone should be able to do so and enjoy them.

However, it REALLY irks me when people call Christmas trees "holiday trees". When I heard the White House was calling the Christmas trees "holiday trees", it really pissed me off because I feel like by doing that, they are spitting in the face of Christians.

No other religious holidays are attacked and commercialized the way that Christian holidays are. Jewish people don't have their menorahs being called "holiday candelabras" and being placed on everyone's tables or in their windows. Same thing with the Kwanza kinara... I wouldn't put those up in my home, and claim they were just regular holiday candles.

I'm just sick of the world trying to commercialize Christian holidays. I'm not religious, but I am spiritual and I just don't understand why, if none of the other religious holidays are made so secular, Christmas, Easter, etc. have to be made so secular and commercialized.

That article pissed me off. It really, really pissed me off. He is implying that Madeleine Murray was murdered because she didn't want prayer in schools...well I should have died a long time ago. People have believed in God for a long ass time, the world isn't "going to hell", the world is not worse than it was millions or billions of years ago. Maybe people are worse. And maybe people, for once, should take responsibility for themselves and stop blaming the problems in the world on the absence or the disregard for something/someone who may or may not exist.

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing yet?

Yes, I am laughing. I don't worship celebrities, I don't worship anyone. If my choice not to worship something that might not even exist means that I'm going to get hit by a bus or something, I am a-okay with that. Sorry if I am worried about what people who are here, right now, in front of my face think of me, and not some being in the sky who MAY OR MAY NOT EXIST. I care what people who are tangible think and feel, and if there is a God, and if he is so touchy that he'll make our lives a living hell simply because we don't believe in him/her/whatever, well then burning in hell is worth it. I'm not going to worship something whose ego is that huge. I am so tired of hearing people talk about how religion is being attacked, and I'm not mad at you, I'm annoyed and ticked off with what Ben Stein said. It reminds me of that stupid Rick Perry ad about how Christianity is being attacked and how a lack of prayer in schools is to blame for why kids are shooting up schools (he didn't say all of that, but it was implied that the lack of prayer is a bad thing) and it just irritates the hell out of me. If we allow prayer in schools, DOES EVERYONE get to pray? There are so many different ways to pray, some of them are loud and disruptive, is that okay in a school setting?

If Christian kids get to pray, everybody gets to pray. Christianity is not under attack, believe whatever you want, but not everyone else has to. I'm so tired of this, "What is happening to this world!!!?!? No one believes in God anymore!!!" state of mind. People are becoming more intelligent and I am not trying to insult you, but that is why less people believe in God these days. When you constantly overanalyze everything, when you question everything, you are going to question whether or not there is a God. That is a good thing. And maybe Ben Stein doesn't feel annoyed when he sees a crap ton of Christmas decorations, but my Jewish friend finds it annoying when Christians complain about terms like "holiday trees" when you can't find a decent Hanukkah bush at home depot! That was a joke, but seriously, I would feel so weird and left out if I were Jewish and I had to decorate paper Christmas trees at school, heard Christmas songs in every department store, saw tons of Christmas movies on t.v. every year, and saw very few accurate representations of the holiday I celebrate...anywhere.

Also, horrible things have been happening in this world for a very long time. Things worse than Hurricane Katrina. So we've either always asked God to butt out...or there is absolutely nothing that we can do about the bad things that happen. They just happen. I have a pretty fantastic life, I don't need God to make sure that it stays that way. I need myself, my family, and my friends.

Oh and:

Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbour as yourself. And we said OK.

Really? The Bible is a crock of bull in my opinion....and I once stole something accidentally when I was 3 and I sobbed uncontrollably. My little sister, who goes to church camp where they have to read the bible...stole something intentionally once and didn't care, at all. I entertain the thought that maybe God exists, but the Bible, in my opinion, is fiction. Also reading it does not mean that you'll actually do what it tells you no to do. Freaking BTK was the head of his church or something, I can't remember what his title was, but he was a religious man...who tortured women. I am not saying that you believe any of this, but again, Ben Stein seems to be implying that we need religion to make us "good" or to make sure that we don't do horrible things and that is just absolutely false. If you want to believe in God, go for it, but that doesn't make you better than those who do not. Again, I am just responding to Ben haha...I'm venting because oh man did that article annoy me.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave, because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said okay.

And what the hell is he even saying there??? I don't understand why he feels the need to include that his son killed himself. Seems kind of like a low blow to me.

 

[whitewolf]

The holidays really annoy me lately. Mainly because my family insists on praying before the meals and having a Bible reading. I don't mind if they do that, but they don't need to be offended if I don't want to participate. I'm sorry, but I don't believe in their religion anymore, I don't believe in their God so I shouldn't have to stand there and bow my head and pray to something I don't believe in or read from a book that I don't view as anything other than a collection of myths. Important myths sure, but I view it as I would the works of Homer.

I also get pissed off when my friends on Facebook post junk asking why atheists celebrate "CHRISTmas" and then they get mad when I answer them and say I view it as a secular holiday and time to spend with family and friends. And they start telling me how it was created to celebrate Jesus's birth and that you shouldn't celebrate if you don't believe. Well first of all that is inaccurate. Jesus, if he existed, was born in the spring. Christmas was originally a pagan holiday to celebrate the solstice.

And no I don't get offended when people say Merry Christmas or call them Christmas trees or even say God bless you. All I ask is that you don't get offended if I wish you a happy holiday or if I leave the room when you pray or at least don't bow my head and participate.

 

[kittenpoker]

I love reading all the various thoughts on this. As far as holiday greetings my take is pretty simple.

If you celebrate christmas - wish me merry christmas
If you celebrate hannukah - wish me happy hannukah
If you celebrate kwanza - wish me happy kwanza
If you celebrate the winter solstice - wish me happy solstice.....

And I will say thank you. And I will feel happy for the warm wishes.

 

[brinkster130]

I've never been bitter about Thanksgiving like Willow was. She did have a point about the way that history is taught but I think the holiday has evolved over time and is about so much more than the negative history surrounding it. I really think Willow was missing the point about why most people celebrate the holiday; it about being grateful for what you have and sharing that with loved ones. It seemed pretty clear that the reason Buffy was going through all the trouble to set up a Thanksgiving celebration was to create a sense of familiar comfort and security that the holiday provided for her when she was younger.

While I agree that gratitude should be shared and remembered year around, I do think it is very nice that families and friends can take a specific day (or weekend) to set aside time to spend together; because honestly in today's world most people are simply too busy to do that frequently.

As far as Christmas goes, I love it! I enjoy the religious aspect of it as well as the secular parts of it. I'm a sucker for it all! 😀

I think people should be able to celebrate however they choose. If you celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ great, of you celebrate Santa great, if you celebrate Hanukkah, Kwanza or any other winter holiday great - enjoy it!

I personally don't get to worked up over the words people use to reference the holidays, I don't see the point in getting your panties in a twist over someone using the word God in something - it's just a word and if you don't like it ignore it. I think people get too sensitive about things and complain & whine about being offended whenever they get a chance.

The holidays should be a time to be merry and joyful; I'm not going to let others ruin that for me. 🙂