Immigrants should learn English

[InsaneMystic]

I just talked to a military wife today whose husband got orders for Germany. I told her that I heard the Rosetta Stone program for German was really good and she said "Oh, I have no plans to learn their language." I was like "Um, what do you plan on doing, then? Not everyone is going to speak English." She said "I just won't leave the post." WTF, dude.

WTF indeed... she's basically building her own "language prison" that way, I don't get why anyone would want to. And that's with her at least having the lucky background option that most Germans under the age of 50 or so can get by on some (if possibly pidginized) School English... it'd be far worse if she'd, say, get stationed in Turkey or somewhere in the Arabic cultural hemisphere.

 

[BuffyElevated]

WTF indeed... she's basically building her own "language prison" that way, I don't get why anyone would want to. And that's with her at least having the lucky background option that most Germans under the age of 50 or so can get by on some (if possibly pidginized) School English... it'd be far worse if she'd, say, get stationed in Turkey or somewhere in the Arabic cultural hemisphere.

I was dumbfounded. I mean... If you're going to get the opportunity to travel the world and see another country, wouldn't you want to try to learn as much about their culture as you can? I know I would! I wouldn't want to stay on post all the damn time if I were living in Germany! I'd be wanting to get out and see the country and talk to the locals!

 

[Taake]

I think it would be ridiculous for me to move to Guatemala and expect that everyone just cater to my English speaking preference. If I move to a country that speaks another language and have any interest in surviving or thriving then I think I ought to expect to learn the language. I think that international airports in other countries are really the only places that I expect things to be written in multiple languages...otherwise I see no reason for signs to be written in a language other that the official language of that country.

Agreed.
That said, for immigrants here (at least in Stockholm) when/if they get employment they're employers will usually provide a free-language course (after work hours though sometimes). And if you're without employment the government provides plenty of courses instead (though I've understood sometimes they fill up quickly).

Though frankly around here you could get by as long as you speak some English...

 

[prophecygrrl]

Looks like this is kind of a U.S./western-centric issue? I think it makes sense for people to learn the language of the country they're moving to. But I don't think it should be mandatory, and in my experience with other immigrants, I've never met anyone who actually refuses to learn English. I'm a first generation American so most of my family are immigrants, and I live in Southern California so there are a lot of people from Mexico here. All of my family, except for my grandparents, speak fluent English. Most of them still have accents, but that's not something you can help. I honestly think most people DO try. Heck, even my 75 year old grandmother is trying to learn English.

If anyone can provide any studies or information on whether or not most immigrants are intentionally refusing to learn English and how that impacts society, that'd be really helpful. Because based on personal experience and from what I've read, it's not that big of an issue. People come from all walks of life, the world is getting more and more interconnected... as far as us native English-speaking people go, we should probably be learning other languages too. I think the bigger problem has always been the prejudice towards people from other countries. Folks who don't speak unaccented English, who are still trying to learn, or who are obviously "foreign". People look down on that, and it's really sad.

 

[woogirl]

i can say something because I've lived in England for two years as an immigrant.
I met a lot of people who really didn't want to learn English. i can't understand why.

I remember when I was crying because two weeks after my moving to the UK. I had to talk to postman. I couldn't understand him (he had English accent and talked so fast) and he was like 'what a stupid girl" and left. I was feeling terrible, I thought that I'll never learn English.
It took me more than a year to have a real conversation in English. I mean, I was talking with people but it was mostly short or easy talks. I really wanted to have English friends. But I was in high school only for last year and when I started to be more confident, make friendships, I left school and had to go to college. I went there for a month. I was in Beauty Therapy class where all the girls were English and very mean. I'm shy at first sight and they laughed at my English etc.
And I think immigrants should learn a language. It helps, a lot.

I don't agree with Cameron. Not ALL of the problems are because of immigrants. I don't understand why the country do nothing with illegal immigrants. They have their shops and stuff and it's really easy to find them. Riots were mostly did by them.

 

[Professor Walsh]

While I don't think blaming the riots on lack of language skills is taking Britain anywhere, I could not imagine moving somewhere - voluntarily or not - and not do my best to become fairly fluent in the language.

That said, I wonder if he thinks that should be so even for British expats. If he does, I'd appreciate him telling the Brits in Norway so ;-)

 

[Skytteflickan88]

While I don't think it's right to call for "perfect" cultural assimilation (i.e., giving up the home culture completely), I do think that making it mandatory for an immigrant to at least speak the language of the new home well enough to get by on it in everyday life without constant need for an interpreter is a perfectly sensible idea.

How mandatory are we talking?

Worst case senario; People have been tortured in their home land, flee to Britain for support. They need lots of theraphy and time before they can even think about studying.

Are they set home if they don't learn quick enough? Or are they just forced to take a class?

 

[Enemies]

I think the emphasis should be on immigrants being able to speak the language to a degree that other English speaking citizens can ascertain what they are trying to express. I work with people that have lived in the Uk a good many years and their English is very poor to the extent that you can't understand what they are trying to say. I do think if you are searching for a job you should attempt to learn the language fluently enough to communicate with others otherwise how can you do the job properly? Although i know you can't force people to learn, you also can't expect to come to a foreign country and not be able to communicate in that country's language and survive.

 

[InsaneMystic]

How mandatory are we talking?

Worst case senario; People have been tortured in their home land, flee to Britain for support. They need lots of theraphy and time before they can even think about studying.

Are they set home if they don't learn quick enough? Or are they just forced to take a class?

If they're in a state of such emergency, as in being threatened with or even already having survived torture and similar harassment, they should definitely be allowed very considerable leniency in the time plan. (That wasn't the situation I had in mind reading the word "immigrants", they would be called "applicants for political shelter" over here.)

If they "merely" seek better job/wage chances, but are not threatened with harassment or starvation in their county of origin (and that's what I would more usually associate with the term "immigrants") then I'm perfectly fine with it if they're told "prove you can get by in our language till date X, or you'll have to move out again".

 

[Chosen Enemy]

Why move to a country if you don't wanna speak its language? You move somewhere because you like it there (usually), you like the culture or the people or the sights. I don't think it should be a law, but one should really learn the tongue of the place they live in. Don't know why though. This thing kinda confuses me. I they one should learn the language of their country, but I'm not really sure why.

 

[Ianigsy]

I work with a Polish woman (Marta) whose brother also came to England to work with his Polish wife and they had a baby. The brother and his wife both relied on Marta's English to an extent because they weren't too confident themselves, but they still managed to work and have the baby here. The only problem was that because they didn't have enough English to make friends outside the Polish community, when Marta's sister in law was looking after the baby she became very lonely and eventually took the baby back to Poland with her, leaving Marta's brother to work two jobs to support them in another country. Marta is understandably furious with her.

There's a serious issue where certain communities become self-contained and isolated from society in general, which makes it very difficult if, say, you're a wife being abused but you don't know who to go to or how to explain what's happening to you.

 

[Washburne]

Sidenote: A "funny" thing about swedish "nationalists" is that they more or less demand immigrants to become swedish but if they moved away to another country they'd want to keep their own culture and language as much as possible. I love logic.

Why move to a country if you don't wanna speak its language?

If we just see to the question and not getting into definitions of immigrant and the likes, the answer is easy. The priority is to get away from something. I have no doubt that most people would prefer being able to speak the language of the country they're in but sometimes things get in the way. A lot of the time I don't think others understand what other people have been through in their lives and how it affects them. I'm however sure that some don't care about learning the language if they can avoid it. But my guess is that they're in a minority.

 

[woogirl]

I work with a Polish woman (Marta) whose brother also came to England to work with his Polish wife and they had a baby. The brother and his wife both relied on Marta's English to an extent because they weren't too confident themselves, but they still managed to work and have the baby here. The only problem was that because they didn't have enough English to make friends outside the Polish community, when Marta's sister in law was looking after the baby she became very lonely and eventually took the baby back to Poland with her, leaving Marta's brother to work two jobs to support them in another country. Marta is understandably furious with her.

It depends from the person. I know a girl who needed only two months to start hanging out with English people even if her language wasn't perfect. I've always been shy, I don't want to say something till I know it's in perfect order etc.

I came back to my country because of school. I knew that in the UK I would never go to uni because I was in high school only one year and my GCSEs were not good.

But I can't understand why people agree to live apart. Especially if they have children. You can live worse but you're together. Long-distance relationships don't workout.

 

[Bluebird]

I think immigrants should learn the language of the country they live in, if not for personal reasons and getting by with things day by day. Pretty hard to do if you can't communicate with people. Generally, I don't mind though.

Something that bothers me a bit is how insular some communities can be. Chinatown in my city is near me and there's 2nd and 3rd generations, Scottish Chinese, who can't speak English because of this. Scottish people who can't speak English is just strange. Although, most English people know Scots don't really speak English. 😉

And I thoroughly disagree with every word David Cameron ever says. No respect for a hypocrite like him.

 

[Kanazaka]

I work at a McDonald's near my university's campus, and often Chinese customers (many of them students) have major difficulty understanding me and telling me their orders. I'm more patient with them than are some of my co-workers, but it's still frustrating. In my case, I wonder if the students primarily speak Chinese because they plan on living in the United States only for a short time before returning to their home country (China or elsewhere). Still, I wish they put forth a bit more effort to adequately communicate with me and other such service workers.

 

[VisionGirl]

I work at a McDonald's near my university's campus, and often Chinese customers (many of them students) have major difficulty understanding me and telling me their orders. I'm more patient with them than are some of my co-workers, but it's still frustrating. In my case, I wonder if the students primarily speak Chinese because they plan on living in the United States only for a short time before returning to their home country (China or elsewhere). Still, I wish they put forth a bit more effort to adequately communicate with me and other such service workers.

It can be very, very difficult for some people to learn a foreign language, especially adults, and especially the elderly. My grandmother could converse, but her English wasn't super-great. However, she worked for a very long time, paid her taxes, lived on her own and generally got along with help from my parents. She wasn't a citizen, but she was a good, contributing member of society. It takes all kinds.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

Sidenote: A "funny" thing about swedish "nationalists" is that they more or less demand immigrants to become swedish but if they moved away to another country they'd want to keep their own culture and language as much as possible. I love logic.

I keep imagining this senario, where we sweds have to immigrate to villages in Africa, where people walk topless and have hardly anything at the bottom either. I wonder if the people complaining about niquabs would react well to natives telling them to strip, to let go of the opression and try to fit in.

I know that's simplyfying the issue, but I'm just saying that I wouldn't like running from war and other bad things and then have to walk around naked because people weren't minding their own buisness

 

[Washburne]

I know that's simplyfying the issue, but I'm just saying that I wouldn't like running from war and other bad things and then have to walk around naked because people weren't minding their own buisness

He, since very far from all of Africa are like that it's to simply things yes, but the point isn't wrong. Moving to a different culture not everyone would find it easy to adjust. I know I wouldn't. As always it's easier to see things from one/your side than to try and take a different point of view.


With that said. Not like I'm great at seeing both sides no matter what subject. I fail a lot but I try.

 

[Ianigsy]

An interesting point about the niqab or veil or whatever you want to call it- a few months ago some doctors in Wales reported an increase in the incidence of rickets in children from Asian families. They reckoned that one of the causes was that women who are veiled from head to foot get no vitamin D from sunlight in the European climate because the sun isn't strong enough, and so their children are developing bone deformities.