Important Episodes that Characterize Angel and Spike

Francy

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Hi everyone!

Right now, I'm working on my BA Thesis in American Studies, which deals with the changing of the vampire figure from Stoker's Dracula, to Rice's Louis, to Angel and Spike.

Thus, my question is, what episodes do you think characterize Angel and Spike the best? In which do we get to know them better?

The reason for my question is, that I don't want to give a subjective view (which could happen if I chose episodes just on my own) but that I want to try to get opinions of others to make the selection more objective.

It would be great to hear ideas from you!
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
I would also add Lovers Walk and Crush to important Spike-centric episodes. :)
H
hazzard
what an awesome thesis. good luck.
Welcome to the boards! You should make a check in thread too! 😀

I think the best episodes for Spike would have to be Fool For Love and Lies My Parents Told Me. You don't only get to know him, you get to know his background and how his mind works!
 
Fool for Love for spike, but thats a fairly obvious one.

But really, its not rocket science now is it. Character is something thats bred over time so any episode with flashbacks or flashback devoted episodes are where your going to get that.

For Spike though, you have a much more interesting story. You can delve into what makes a soulless demon fight for a soul in the first place, what about his character drives that (I suppose his openness for love?) is pretty interesting. Once he has a soul you get a whole new story. And then his transition from wimp to 'putting on the leather jacket' shows that the wildness of Spike was actually always in William, the characters are the same soulless or not.
 
I'd say these five quotes define Angel's worldview pretty well:

"Amends"

Cut to Angel's mansion. Buffy runs in.

Buffy: Angel!

She looks around, but he's nowhere to be seen. She walks toward the
doorway to the atrium and looks out. She sees the steps leading up and
runs toward them. Cut to the hills behind the mansion. Buffy runs
through the bushes, frantically looking for Angel. She climbs further up
the hill and finds him standing at the top looking out over a peaceful
residential area of town.

Buffy: Angel.

He hears her say his name and briefly glances in her direction before
looking back out over the rooftops. Buffy slowly walks over to him.

Angel: I bet half the kids down there are already awake. Lying in their
beds... sneaking downstairs... waiting for day.

Buffy: (out of breath) Angel, please. I need for you to get inside. Th-
there's only a few minutes left.

Angel: I know. I can smell the sunrise long before it comes.

Buffy: (anxiously and hurried) I don't have time to explain this. You
just have to trust me. That thing that was haunting you...

Angel: (interrupts) It wasn't haunting me. It was showing me.

Buffy: (confused) Showing you?

Angel: What I am.

Buffy: (insistently) Were.

Angel: And ever shall be. I wanted to know why I was back. Now I do.

Buffy: You *don't* know. Some great evil takes credit for bringing you
back and you buy it? You just give up?

Angel: (harshly) I can't do it again, Buffy. I can't become a killer.

Buffy: Then fight it.

Angel: It's too hard.

Buffy: (desperately) Angel, please, you *have* to get inside.

Angel: It told me to kill you. You were in the dream. You know. It told
me to lose my soul in you and become a monster again.

Buffy: I know what it told you. What does it matter?

Angel: (raises his voice) Because I wanted to! Because I want you so
badly! I want to take comfort in you, and I know it'll cost me my soul,
and a part of me doesn't care.

He sobs. Buffy is at a loss for words.

Angel: Look, I'm weak. I've never been anything else. It's not the
demon in me that needs killing, Buffy. It's the man.

Buffy: You're weak. Everybody is. Everybody fails. Maybe this evil did
bring you back, but if it did, it's because it needs you. And that means
that you can hurt it.

Angel doesn't want to believe her.

Buffy: (pleadingly) Angel, you have the power to do real good, to make
amends. (raises her voice) But if you die now, then all that you ever
were was a monster.

She looks out at the sky as it begins to lighten.

Buffy: (begging frantically) Angel, please, the sun is coming up!

Angel: Just go.

Buffy: I won't!

Angel: What, do you think this is simple? You think there's an easy
answer? You can never understand what I've done! Now go!

Buffy: You are not staying here. (grabs his arm) I won't let you!

Angel: I said LEAVE!

He jerks his arm free of her grasp. In her anger and desperation Buffy
punches him. He reacts by shoving her away from him roughly, making her
fall face forward, hard to the ground.

Angel: (quietly to himself) Oh, my God...

He goes to her and crouches over her, grabbing her by the shoulders and
turning her around to face him. Buffy fears his intentions and cries
out.

Buffy: No! No!

He grabs her roughly by the arms and holds her firmly.

Angel: Am I a thing worth saving, huh? (shakes her) Am I a righteous
man? (shakes her) The world wants me gone!

Buffy: (tearfully) What about me? I love you so much... And I tried to
make you go away... I killed you and it didn't help.

She shoves him off of her and gets up.

Buffy: (crying) And I hate it! I hate that it's *so* hard... and that
you can hurt me *so* much. (sobs, then harshly) I know everything that
you did, because you did it to me. Oh, God! I wish that I wished you
dead. I don't. (whispers) I can't.

Angel gets up now, too.

Angel: Buffy, please. Just this once... let me be strong.

Buffy: Strong is fighting! It's hard, and it's painful, and it's every
day. It's what we have to do. And we can do it together.

Angel struggles with himself, knowing she's right.

Buffy: (resolvedly) But if you're too much of a coward for that, then
burn. If I can't convince you that you belong in this world, then I
don't know what can. But do *not* expect me to watch. And *don't* expect
me to mourn for you, because...

She stops in mid-sentence because it has inexplicably begun to snow. She
and Angel both look up at it coming down, lightly at first and gradually
heavier. The camera pulls up above them and shows them standing there
with the snowflakes swirling around them in the gentle morning breeze,
and the ground around them starting to become white. Cut to Angel,
looking around in amazement. Buffy walks to the edge of the hill and
looks out at the town as the roofs on the houses below also start to
become white. She turns to Angel, and they look at each other, stunned
by this apparent miracle.

"I Will Remember You"

Cut to the Oracles.
Man: "You again."
Woman: "What have you brought me?"
Angel: "Famille Rose vase. (Throws her a black vase) Ching dynasty. Circa 1811."
Woman: "Lovely."
Man: "Why are you here, lower being?"
Angel: "The Mohra demon said the end of days had begun. That others were coming, soldiers of darkness. I need to know if he was telling the truth."
Man: "As far as such things can be told."
Angel: "What happens to the Slayer when these soldiers come?"
Woman: "What happens to all mortal beings. Albeit sooner in her case."
Angel: "She'll die? - Then I'm here to beg for her life."
The Oracles turn and walk away: "It is not our place to grant life or death."
Angel: "And I ask you to take mine back. (The oracles stop walking and turn back to him) Look I can't protect her or anyone this way, not as a man."
Woman: "You're asking to be what you were, a demon with a soul, because of the Slayer?"
Man turns to leave again: "Oh, this is a matter of love. It does not concern us."
Angel: "Yes, it does. The Mohra demon came to take a warrior from your cause - and it succeeded. I'm no good to you like this. I know you have it in your power to make this right. Please."
Man: "What is done can not be undone."
Woman: "What is not yet done can be avoided."
Man: "Temporal folds are not to indulge at - the whims of lower beings."
Woman: "You are wrong. This one is willing to sacrifice every drop of human happiness and love he has ever known for another. He is not a lower being."
Man: "There is one way. But it is not to be undertaken lightly."
Woman: "We swallow this day, as though it had never happened. Twenty-four hours from the moment the demon first attacked you, we take it back."
Angel licks his lips: "Then none of this happened and Buffy and I.. What - what'll stop us from doing the exact same thing again?"
Woman: "You. You alone will carry the memory of this day. - Can you carry that burden?"

Cut to the clock on Angel's desk. It's 8:56.
Buffy wearing a long flowery dress is pacing Angel's apartment. Angel comes down the steps to his apartment.
Buffy: "I'm guessing that expression isn't because they were all out of fresh OJ at the deli. - What happened?"
Angel: "Nothing happened. - I just.."
Buffy: "Where have you been?"
Angel: "I went to see the Oracles. I asked them to turn me back."
Buffy: "What? - Why?"
Angel: "Because more then ever I know how much I love you."
Buffy backs away from him: "No. No, you didn't."
Angel follows her: "And if I stayed mortal one of us would wind up dead, maybe both of us. You heard what Mohra said."
Buffy: "Mohra is dead. We killed him."
Angel: "He said others would come."
Buffy: "They always come. And they always will. But that's my problem now, not yours, remember?"
Angel: "No, I won't just stand by and let you fight, maybe die, alone."
Buffy: "Then we fight together."
Angel: "You saw what happened last night. If anything I'm a liability to you. You take chances to protect me, and that's not just bad for you, it's bad for the people we were meant to help."
Buffy: "So what? You just took a whole 24 hours to weigh the ups and downs of being a regular Joe and decided it was more fun being a superhero?"
Angel: "You know that's not it. How can we be together if the cost is your life, or the lives of others? (Buffy just stares at him and after a moment he takes her into his arms) I know. I couldn't tell you. I wasn't sure - if I could do it if I woke up with you one more morning."
Buffy sniffling: "I understand. - So, what happens now?'
Angel: "The Oracles are giving us back the day, turning back time, so I can kill Mohra before his blood makes me mortal."
Buffy: "When?"
Angel looks over at the clock (it's 9:00): "Another minute."
Buffy crying: "A minute? No. No, it's not enough time!"
Angel: "We don't have a choice. It's done."
Buffy: "How am I supposed to go on with my life knowing what we had? What we could have had?"
Angel: "You won't. No one will know but me."
Buffy: "Everything we did."
Angel: "It never happened."
Buffy shakes her head: "It did. It did. I know it did! (Puts her hand on his heart) I felt your heart beat."
Angel: "Buffy.."
They kiss. Buffy looks over at the clock. The minute is almost up.
Buffy: "No! Oh God. It's not enough time."
Angel is crying too now: "Shh, please. Please."
The hold each other tightly both crying.
Angel: "Please, please."
Buffy: "No. I'll never forget. I'll never forget. I'll never forget. I'll never forget."
White flash dissolves to Angel's office the previous day.
Angel is leaning against his desk blinking, looking around. Buffy is standing next to the door.
Buffy: "So, then let's just stick to the plan. Keep our distance until a lot of time has passed, and given enough time - we should be able to.."
Angel stares at her and swallows hard: "Forget."

"Hero"

Angel: Buffy and I were together until we realized it couldn't be. We don't belong to ourselves. We belong in the world, fighting.

Doyle: You had the one thing you've wanted in your unnaturally long life, and you gave it back?
Angel: Maybe I was wrong.
Doyle: Or maybe Cordelia was right about you being the real deal in the hero department. See, I would have chosen the pleasures of the flesh over duty and honor any day of the week. I just don't have that strength.
Angel: You never know your strength until you're tested.

Doyle: You've lived and loved and lost and fought and vanquished inside a day, and I'm still trying to work up the nerve to ask Cordy out for dinner.

"Epiphany"
Night. Kate and Angel are sitting side by side outside in the garden court of the Hyperion.
Kate: "I feel like such an idiot."
Angel: "A lot of that going around."
Kate: "I just couldn't... - My whole life has been about being a cop. If I'm not part of the force it's like nothing I do means anything."
Angel, still looking pretty beat up: "It doesn't."
Kate: "Doesn't what?"
Angel: "Mean anything. In the greater scheme or the big picture, nothing we do matters. There's no grand plan, no big win."
Kate: "You seem kind of chipper about that."
Angel: "Well, I guess I kinda - worked it out. If there is no great glorious end to all this, if - nothing we do matters, - then all that matters is what we do. 'cause that's all there is. What we do, now, today. - I fought for so long. For redemption, for a reward - finally just to beat the other guy, but... I never got it."

Kate: "And now you do?"
Angel: "Not all of it. All I wanna do is help. I wanna help because - I don't think people should suffer, as they do. Because, if there is no bigger meaning, then the smallest act of kindness - is the greatest thing in the world."

Kate: "Yikes. It sounds like you had an epiphany."
Angel: "I keep saying that. But nobody's listening."
Kate: "Well, I'm pretty much convinced, since I'm alive to be convinced."
Angel: "You know you don't have to be a cop to be..."
Kate: "I'm okay. - Anyway, I'm *not* headed towards another pillathon. - I'm very grateful. - I never thought you'd come for me, but... I got cut a huge break and I believe... - I don't know what I believe, but I - have - faith. - I think maybe we're not alone in this."
Angel: "Why?"
Kate: "Because I never invited you in."

"Deep Down"

Angel: "You've done enough lying for me to know the difference. The truth has a better sound to it, less nasal, you know? - Get up."

Connor stands up.

Angel: "What you did to me - was unbelievable, Connor. - But then I got stuck in a hell dimension by my girlfriend one time for a hundred years, so three months under the ocean actually gave me perspective. Kind of a M. C. Esher perspective - but I did get time to think. About us, about the world. - Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. - It's harsh, and cruel. - But that's why there's us. Champions. It doesn't matter where we come from, what we've done or suffered, or even if we make a difference. We live as though the world was what it should be, to show it what it can be. - You're not a part of that yet. - I hope you will be. (Angel moves to stand in front of Connor) I love you, Connor. (Quietly, after a beat) Now get out of my house."


After a beat Connor leaves and Angel lets out a slight sigh. We hear the lobby doors close. Angel sways on his feet then leans against the wall. Fed and Gunn run over to him.
 
Hm, are we thinking from Buffy only or from Angel spin-off as well? I'll give this some thought and come back. Because if we're just talking Spike, Buffy is the show to focus on, but for Angel's character, he's treated basically as Buffy's love interest in the series and is pretty one-dimensional. Yet in Angel, his character develops greatly and we get to see his past, his fears, wants etc and what he's been through on a much deeper level.

---------- Post added at 04:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:20 PM ----------

Fool for Love for spike, but thats a fairly obvious one.

But really, its not rocket science now is it. Character is something thats bred over time so any episode with flashbacks or flashback devoted episodes are where your going to get that.

For Spike though, you have a much more interesting story. You can delve into what makes a soulless demon fight for a soul in the first place, what about his character drives that (I suppose his openness for love?) is pretty interesting. Once he has a soul you get a whole new story. And then his transition from wimp to 'putting on the leather jacket' shows that the wildness of Spike was actually always in William, the characters are the same soulless or not.

I'd agree that Spike is somewhat of a anomaly or paradox in the mythology and set rules of the 'verse. Spike doesn't "fit" into the pre-established role of the vampire in the series. This is why he is so interesting. He is a "monster", yet he acts like a human. And although he doesn't appear to have a conscience pre-soul, there are some instances where he exhibits human actions even where there is no personal gain involved (such as when he refuses to tell Glory about the Key, Buffy's sister, because he knows it would hurt Buffy). He exhibits human tendencies and motivations and is somewhat intelligent even without a soul. He's a romantic, and a punk, is British, and a poet even! He's a very interesting character. Eventually, he is redeemed due to his love for his enemy, The Slayer, and purposely seeks out a soul to "be the man she deserves". Though this is debatable, he is also able to love without a soul (or so he claims, and Drusilla agrees in "Crush").

Angel, though, is a somewhat more complex character. His amount of self-loathing is fascinating, as is his obsession with atoning for his sins so what he can someday become human.

I'd agree that to really get a true sense of the two as fictional beings, you need to watch the entire series. Yet, I understand how much work that is, so that might not be possible for you.

Both vampires are very distinct characters with many character nuances and unique traits. They way they relate to eachother is quite interesting as well, considering their history together.

Have you read Spike's fictional thesis? It's quite interesting, and might help you. Also check out Spike and Angel's Wiki pages, there might be come helpful references on there. And I'm sure you know about this, but try Slayage: The Online International Journal of Buffy Studies for articles about the show.
Also, in the essay collection entitled "Reading Angel" there is a very interesting article comparing Angel to Batman, which has some great insights into this character.

I don't think just a smattering of episodes would give you a good overall picture. I mean, Spike started out as a throwaway character. The intention was to kill him off in the third episode, but he proved so popular they kept him on, and were forced with the hard task of creating a believable back story for him, while for Angel it was much easier because he already had a mythology attached to him from the beginning. His series was about flushing that out and putting to action, and attempting to give Angel closure.

Hope this helps. PM me if you need anything! I'm always down to chat about Buffy. Your report sounds fascinating - I'd love to hear more about it!
 
H
HABEAS CORPSES
You really are a Smart Cookie !!!
Wow, I didn'tt think I'd get replies that fast (I'll read them later since I already have to finish 4-8 pages till tomorrow, well actually for today)...

@Joan the Vampire Slayer:
Episodes from both shows are okay...

I already watched both series completely. I became a fan at age 11 I think... That's actually the major reason why I wanted to work on this topic. Yet, it's been a while since I watched all episodes. I'd watch them again if I had the time. The problem is just that I have to work on my thesis as well as on ordinary course readings and writings so my free time is already limited to a minimum. If I want to get sleep at all I do have to select major episodes to focus on while taking the rest out of articles and stuff.
My computer is already crowded with articles on Spike (couldn't find that much on Angel yet) since I know I can't just use episodes...
Thanks for the Slayage link! Though I already found out about it when I did a paper on gender roles in BtVS last term 🙂

The major reason why I posted this thread was to get some input from others. Working on this topic that much makes me kinda blind to certain aspects and though my instructor can offer my good guidance on Stoker and Rice, her knowledge on the Buffyverse is really limited.



Alright, I should get back to my writing. Right now it's 2am for me and I'm really tired, but those pages have to be done in the morning 🙁
:xyxwave:
 
This is a really active board. Some back in a few days and I'm sure you'll have loads more!

---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:02 PM ----------

Well, for Spike I'd agree with School Hard, Lies my parents told me, Lovers walk, Crush, Beneath me (the last scene), Fool For love, The Girl in Question, Something Blue, Once More With Feeling, Out of my mind, Touched, The Gift, Dead Things, Wrecked, and Chosen (not in that order lol). Spike's arc is so huge throughout the show that you could feasibly do a character study for each season - he changes so much throughout the show. For Angel, I'd go with Amends, City of, Are you now or have you ever been?, Five by Five, Darla, Orpheus, Home, Conviction, You're Welcome, A hole in the world, and Power Play.

I'm sure other people's episode ideas would be different from mine but here's my two cents 🙂 Hope it helps.
 
B
BillyidolwannaB
Also The Prodigal, from s1, Angels first night as a vamp.
Good luck with your thesis! What a cool idea. I'm so jealous. I'd be so stoked if I could write anything regarding Buffy/Angel for school...
 
The characters can be sumerised in 3 episodes all though this is rather a basic overlook as it is only three episodes. Hell bound in the Angel season 1 depicts spike very well it shows how he reacts in multiple situations. City Of which is the first episode of season one of Angel also is very good at capturing and sumarising the overall view of the charcter Angel, and if you want to see both of these characters togeher and how they react with each other Destiny in Angel season Five is what i would recomend. These would be highly enjoyable to watch as these are three of my most highly rated episodes.
 
For Spike I'd say Lies my parents told me is pretty insightful as welll I love that episode. Just as Fool For Love
 
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