Imprinting technique & the übermensch

[Taake]

So, during Omega (1:12) we hear, in brief, a reference to the Nietzschean philosophical concept of the übermensch. Now,disregarding its real-life philosophical definitions, the Alpha and Omega (Echo) dolls got me pondering...

Obviously Alpha and Echo are both special Dolls, they have been shown to progressively evolve and factoring in that we don't know how many Dolls there are, or for that matter how many other Dollhouses there are, we can conclude that Alpha's composite event was probably not only a technological anomaly but an anomaly for the Actives in general. This supposing that similar events at other Dollhouses would have reached Adelle's ears at some point.

(However one might ask - would they? As long as a Doll didn't turn out lethal such as Alpha did, would not the houses try to cover their tracks and put the "defective" Doll in the Attic?)

However, while Alpha and Echo are clearly both extraordinary there are other Actives with smaller amounts of awareness as well. It is not negligible that Sierra and Viktor chose to "herd" with Echo, also Viktor even in a Doll state, is clearly aware of Sierra in a way that he shouldn't be, and Sierra for her part during "Needs" not only remembers that she has been victimized by a man but even remembers Nolan's name and address... And while it it's mostly suggested rather than said outright, throughout the series Whisky does seem to have some kind of awareness, an inkling at least, that something is off about herself... In fact the only onscreen Doll who does not present us with an underlying sense of awareness is September.

My point is, that while not exposed or possibly not even capable to handle a composite event such as Echo and Alpha can, these other Dolls are clearly also able to progress and become "aware" just as Echo has, though granted perhaps these need more time.

So, without the knowledge of how many Houses or Dolls there really are, our test group seem to suggest that it is almost impossible to suppress certain amounts of personal awareness even in a wiped state (logic would suggest that in other houses these recalcitrant Dolls would end up rather quickly in the Attic)

My question becomes - say the imprinting technique became a reality in our world; how many "dolls" do you think would be able to transform beyond their wiped state? Do you think that it would be a minority or a majority?

Personally I would say that at a minimum 10-30% would probably be able to regain some kind of "self" (if allowed the time to progress), mind that it wouldn't be their old self, just a kind of variant of their core personality.

What do you guys thinks? 🙂

 

[sk]

Kinda hard to say obvious... but I would guess it wouldn't be that many.

Sure, in the show it looks like every other doll starts to develop some kind of awareness.
But I think that's misleading.

There is a reason we are watching the happenings in this particular dollhouse.
My guess is that some kind of anomaly are going on there. (Because otherwise it would be a very boring show. 😉)

After all, they seemed genuine surprised to see this development.
Topher gets very excited and surprised over Victor's "man reaction" as an example.
If it was more common the reaction would have been different.

I also think that every doll is quite an investment.
If so many of them "failed", and had to be sent to the attic, the technology would not had been accepted.
That's just not good enough.

/SK

 

[Fuffy Baith]

It's hard to say because everyone's brain is different and we only see what's going on with 4 or 5 actives, as opposed to how other dolls act or if they develop awareness as well. I won't get into the other Dollhouses thing til s2 since that's really where the Dollhouse world grows and gets explored more.

The brain is complex and can adapt well, so I think that it makes total sense for the dolls to become more aware and evolve into their own persons. As for the world population, I think it would have eventually to every one just different rates of time.

 

[thetopher]

Alpha was an anomoly because of who he was before he was a doll wasn't he?
Echo was unique for her own reasons.
After Alpha the dollhouses tightened up their screening process when it came to selecting potential dolls. It's also fair to say that after the Alpha incident other dollhouses took a whole bunch of precautions with their own dolls, maybe sent the riskier ones to the attic, scrubbed more often and such.
I think the only real way we can guess how many 'Victor' or 'Sierra' incidents there would've been across the dollhouses we have to look at the environments that allowed them to 'come into being'

I think we have to judge the dollhouses by the way they are run, which means the focus should be on Adele.
Adele seems somewhat unusual in the way she runs her house. In the beginning she 'believes' in what the Dollhouse stands for, she's a strange mix of idealist and pragmatist. She has a moral code for how she treats the dolls, what assignments they are sent and how long for and decides how often they are scrubbed.

I think this may've contributed to the 'incidents' we see with some of the dolls (like the experiment done in 'Needs'- seems rather unorthodox, although it was suggested by Dr. Saunders it was approved by Adele, which says something about how she reacts to risks and problem solving.)

It's hard to judge any of the other houses (we only really see I other one don't we? ) or the people who run them, but when Adele is ousted from her house (briefly) in S2, we see how a house could be run- with little or no regard for the dolls welfare and always with an eye on profit.

I honesty think it was this environment that helped foster the dolls unique states and allowed them to eventually flourish. Another house director probably would've reacted a lot more harshly to such events. (Intelligent speculation from what we've seen)

Otherwise, if all the dolls in all the house were allowed to 'grow' (if they could) I think 20% or so might exibit unexplainable 'tics' like Victor'and Sierra showed.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

I think we have to judge the dollhouses by the way they are run, which means the focus should be on Adele.
Adele seems somewhat unusual in the way she runs her house. In the beginning she 'believes' in what the Dollhouse stands for, she's a strange mix of idealist and pragmatist. She has a moral code for how she treats the dolls, what assignments they are sent and how long for and decides how often they are scrubbed.

I honesty think it was this environment that helped foster the dolls unique states and allowed them to eventually flourish. Another house director probably would've reacted a lot more harshly to such events. (Intelligent speculation from what we've seen)

Otherwise, if all the dolls in all the house were allowed to 'grow' (if they could) I think 20% or so might exibit unexplainable 'tics' like Victor'and Sierra showed.

I agree that a part of it is how Adele runs her dollhouse. Dominic kept suggesting to send Echo to the attic but Adele said no. Even Topher suggested doing a deeper scrub of Echo at the end of 'Spy in the House of Love' and Adele said no. I think she's just as curious to see what happens if dolls are allowed to evolve and perhaps she thinks that she can contain it within her house, even though Alpha got out. Brains are very good at adapting and I think that Adele wants to see how far she can push things. Unfortunately for her, not so good, but we'll see more when we watch 'Epitaph pt.1' next week.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

It appears the dolls were recruited on a 5-year contract. The imprinting methods did not have to be permanent or have a hermetic seal between the doll and his or her original personality, they just had to be "good enough" to meet Dollhouse requirements. This means the imprint would cover the original personality for the duration of an assignment and the normal personality that was reinserted at the end of the term of employment would not be able to remember or access anything about the assignments as a doll, for security reasons. Topher shows some signs of being surprised about Echo retaining some of her original personality and the incipient romance between Victor and Sierra. This was perhaps unexpected, but not necessarily critical, just something that would have to be monitored to make sure it would not affect their ability to conduct their assignments. What was more disturbing (from Topher's point of view) was that Echo seemed to retain skills implanted at the beginning of other assignments and her skillset seemed to be cumulative. Need a spy who could penetrate security? Even when her assignment did not require it, she retained this skillset because it had been imprinted on her before. And she seemed to be getting enough self-awareness that if she chose to fight her masters, every skill she was implanted with would count against them.

Experts on brainwashing know that none of the effects are permanent, but they may outlast the lifespan of the victim, in which case, there is no problem for the brainwasher. If Topher thought that there would be a complete separation of assignment personality and the original doll, life has a way of reverting to established pathways even when there is no apparent way to do so, sort of like a mental Jurassic Park where life found a way to break boundaries.