In "Becoming Pt 2"...

white avenger

white avenger

white avenger
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I was just watching this episode again, and a thought occurred to me. If Angel wanted Giles to tell him how to perform the Acathla ritual so badly, why didn't he just turn him? Since it's possible to have a vampire rise in just a few hours, that would have made a lot more sense than torturing him, especially since Angel was just about to use a chainsaw on him before Spike stopped it.

Think of the advantages of having a vampire Giles. He knows all of the Slaying techniques that Buffy knows, because he taught her most of them, plus, he would have access to literally tons of records on every type of demon and occult procedure and ritual known to the Watchers' Council.
 
I think Angelus enjoyed the torturing far too much for that. Turning him might have just been too boring! 😛
I really dont think Angelus was thinking of the future much at that stage, he was trying to get the world sucked into hell! A watcher vampire wouldn't be much good to him then.
It would have been good to see Buffy battle a turned slayer or watcher at some stage though, that could have been interesting.
 
If Angelus had a grave he'd turn in it,
What a...oh, is it possible to say something sacriligious to a vampire?
 
BibliophileAnn
BibliophileAnn
lol. Good joke whether you intended it to be one or not.
Also there's no guarantee vampire Giles would want him to succeed. Usually vampires hate the same people they did as humans, so vampire Giles would probably be just as unwilling to tell, just for different reasons. Plus siring someone takes like 24 hours, if they torture him he could crack at any second.
 
white avenger
white avenger
Don't sell Angelus short. I think EVERYBODY hated him.
W
wehappyfew
i think you're giving angelus too much intellectual credit
^ Interesting point, and very true, but I think Aussie got it dead-on. Angelus wanted to torture Giles more than he actually wanted the information that Giles had, because that's just the kind of sick creature Angelus was.
 
S
Summerlilly
[No message]
Maybe it´s one of those thing that don´t have a good explanation haha

I don´t see a reason too.. except "then BtVS wouldn´t be BtVS"
 
angelus never turned that many people. Throughout all of the flash-backs in the Buffy and Angel series there are only a select few that he actually turned. Angelus was more into the torture aspect of things and the psychological torture of things. I think it is more psychologically torturous to buffy to either keep Giles alive or kill him completely b/c as Angel's life proves, if Giles became a vamp then they could give him a soul. Also, after Jenny's death, I think Giles welcomed death more openly so by killing Giles, or turning him, would have been the easy way out. That's why I think he didn't turn him.

plus it would have ruined the series......so i'm sure the writers had reasons.
 
AgentX7k said:
Plus siring someone takes like 24 hours
Click to expand...
24 hours??? Nah, siring someone takes just as long as the script for the ep says it does - from less than one hour to several days. Kralik, anyone?

Anyway, I very much agree that it was a matter of fun for Angelus to torture Giles. Sure, the emotional torture of sending a Vamp!Giles back on the Scoobies would have been enjoyable to him, too, but he was pretty much bent on ending the world within the next 24 hours, so the payoff would have been less than the hands-on approach, so to call it.
 
About siring, that's another question I always ask myself: How long does it take for a human to turn into a vampire? Because sometimes we see Buffy at the graveyard, killing a vampire at its "freshness". But it did take time, you know, from the moment someone dies to the moment they're buried. It takes a few days, no? But sometimes you see a vampire siring someone and within a few minutes even, the new vampire awakes. So what are the rules here?
 
Urgent Power said:
About siring, that's another question I always ask myself: How long does it take for a human to turn into a vampire? Because sometimes we see Buffy at the graveyard, killing a vampire at its "freshness". But it did take time, you know, from the moment someone dies to the moment they're buried. It takes a few days, no? But sometimes you see a vampire siring someone and within a few minutes even, the new vampire awakes. So what are the rules here?
Click to expand...


I'm not sure there are definitive rules, but more likely a random thing. Perhaps it even has to do with the sire's wishes. There's really no basis to make a clear judgment.
 
I read somewhere in another thread that the time it takes for someone newly sired to become a vamp might be dependent on that person's physiology. Like someone exposed to a flu virus gets really sick from it really quick while someone else takes longer for the infection to take hold.
 
Don't new vampires need to feed straight away? After raising (However long that would take), he'd probably need to feed, and that would just take too much time.
And, besides, vampires aren't exactly the most helpful creatures, even to other vampires. And to get information out of him, torture WAS the best route, and wouldn't be so easy to achieve if he was a vampire.
 
many great moments in this episode...

Buffy/Spike teaming up to battle Angelus

Willow chanting in Romanian, restoring Angel's soul.

Buffy calling Snyder a stupid troll and treating him like the L0SER he is.

Buffy venting to her mom, SMG was excellent in that scene.

As was Kristine Sutherland.


Whistler the good demon.


Very sad ending, with her leaving Sunnydale.
 
^ Agreed. I watched this episode again last night for the first time in years and it made me laugh, cry, etc. It was a very intense episode. Probably without a doubt one of the best Buffy episodes ever.
 
1. Vampire Giles might have, like Spike, not wanted the world to end.

2. In case vamp Giles had been unwilling to share info, torturing him might be even harder if he's a vamp that can handle pain better than humans. (the bloodlust might make him more willing to share tough, since he would be desperate for blood).

3. The turning could have taken too long.

4. The blood thirst might have consummed Giles so much he didn't remember the details of the ritual.

Easier to just torture him while he's human.
 
Has anyone ever explained why Xander never bothered to tell the police that Buffy was not responsible for the dead bodies found in the Sunnydale High library? Anyone?
 
F
Fredsicle
Maybe he did, but Snyder said he was covering for her. Btw, I love your Lesley sig
He probably did, but the police didn't believe him. And they only had once suspect, which fled from the scene, so they had to chase her.
 
Spuffy is true love said:
angelus never turned that many people. Throughout all of the flash-backs in the Buffy and Angel series there are only a select few that he actually turned. Angelus was more into the torture aspect of things and the psychological torture of things. I think it is more psychologically torturous to buffy to either keep Giles alive or kill him completely b/c as Angel's life proves, if Giles became a vamp then they could give him a soul. Also, after Jenny's death, I think Giles welcomed death more openly so by killing Giles, or turning him, would have been the easy way out. That's why I think he didn't turn him.

plus it would have ruined the series......so i'm sure the writers had reasons.
Click to expand...

my thoughts exactly.
Angelus was someone who enjoyed inflicting as much pain and grief on his victims that simply killing them or turning them would have been doing them a favor.

Also if he had decided to turn Giles like some of you have said, it would have taken a good 24 hours.
There was a timeline, he knew that torturing him would have been the fastest way to get what he wanted.
 
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