In "Becoming Pt 2"...

I thought Angel came across as quite dumb on Buffy. Like his plan in School hard and Becoming. He even needed Spike to tell him not to kill Giles as he might be lying. And as WA says, its possible to turn someone in much less than 24 hours, as we've seen on Buffy. Spike was made out to be not that smart, but he seemed alot smarter than Angel to me.
 
Q-tip said:
I thought Angel came across as quite dumb on Buffy. Like his plan in School hard and Becoming. He even needed Spike to tell him not to kill Giles as he might be lying. And as WA says, its possible to turn someone in much less than 24 hours, as we've seen on Buffy. Spike was made out to be not that smart, but he seemed alot smarter than Angel to me.
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I agree that Angel wasn't as bright in Buffy as he was on "Angel" but then again, looking at how Buffy acted when she appeared in a couple episodes of "Angel" I couldn't stand her, she was really bitca-ish and had the oh poor me thing going on, self richious(sp?) too.
I think they had to make Buffy the queen in her show, and Angel the king in his.
 
Umm very interesting. And true. But I think that had no sense in his mind. He wanted to torture Giles because he was obsessed with Buffy. He wanted to drive her crazy just like he did with Drusilla. That was his true plan,first plan. Destroying the world was second on the list.
 
Sunnydale Siren said:
many great moments in this episode...

Buffy/Spike teaming up to battle Angelus

Willow chanting in Romanian, restoring Angel's soul.

Buffy calling Snyder a stupid troll and treating him like the L0SER he is.

Buffy venting to her mom, SMG was excellent in that scene.

As was Kristine Sutherland.


Whistler the good demon.


Very sad ending, with her leaving Sunnydale.
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Have to say that the ending of the ep when Joyce finds Buffy's note and then we see her on the bus leaving Sunnydale, is the saddest moment in the show that does not involve someone's death.
 
I agree that Angelus liked to torture more than anything else but if Angelus turned Giles then there was nothing to stop Giles pushing Angelus aside and doing the ritual himself and claiming all the glory for it, as a vampire Giles would be stronger and would know that Angelus would not kill him since he is the only one who knows how to do it.
 
BillyidolwannaB said:
I thought Angel came across as quite dumb on Buffy. Like his plan in School hard and Becoming. He even needed Spike to tell him not to kill Giles as he might be lying. And as WA says, its possible to turn someone in much less than 24 hours, as we've seen on Buffy. Spike was made out to be not that smart, but he seemed alot smarter than Angel to me.
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I think the idea that Spike is stupid is really only a view that Angel has of him. Spike's often shown to be impatient and reckless, but he's also resourceful, perceptive of other people's emotions (far more than Angel usually is) and quite capable of being cunning and manipulative when he really wants to be (like in the Yoko Factor).

I don't know if Angel turning Giles would really have helped. People turned into vampires may lose their conscience, but they do seem to otherwise retain their personality, and by extension their old grudges (think of Angel's confrontation with his father, or the implication that Spike used a railroad spike on the guy who trashed his poetry). I think a vamped Giles, despite of course being evil, might well have retained his animosity towards Angel and been inclined not to help him on principle.
 
I think that Angellus took far too much pleasure in torturing people such that the desire to inflict pain on others overrode all other priorities. I'm sure if he thought about it he could've come up with a quicker method to get Giles to spill the beans, but torturing someone was an itch he just had to scratch.
 
I agree that Angel wasn't as bright in Buffy as he was on "Angel" but then again, looking at how Buffy acted when she appeared in a couple episodes of "Angel" I couldn't stand her, she was really bitca-ish and had the oh poor me thing going on, self richious(sp?) too.
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Angel wasn't always that bright on his show.
 
Liking the torture is certainly part of it, but also remember the connection betweens sire and sired. Would Angelus really want to have a mystical, quasi-sexual connection with Giles?

...I think I just disproved myself. 😀 lol
 
Just watched this episode again and its so powerful. Kendra's death, the scene with Buffy and Angel at the end. Its really hard not to tear up. Such a complete episode aswell with Spike and Buffy's relationship changing and actually bringing some humour to the episode which balanced up nicely with the drama.

Is there a better episode? I'am not sure.
 
PrincessBuffy16
PrincessBuffy16
No, there's not :D
Why in the hell was Buffy on the run from the cops? Why didn't Xander explain to the cops that she wasn't responsible for Kendra's death and the attack upon the Scoobies? Who wrote this episode?
 
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