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Was this just the first being well the First or was in really Joyce, it was never clear to me. And I don't think it was really ever resolved? Any thoughts?
 
yeah i agree that whole thing confused me too. if it was indeed the first pretending to be joyce it was by far the creepiest one out of the gang, to me at least. i was freaked out through that whole scene.
 
yup freaked me out to..but there was the whole demon not letting her talk to dawn thing..who knows, the message she gave to dawn either was totaly cryptic, a lie, or the just never got to it. or it wasnt very big.
If it was the first then i dont get why the other demon was there
 
Spuffiness said:
It was the First. Jane or Marti said that after the season ended (I think).
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Do you know where you saw that quote from either of those writers? I don't ever remember seeing a concrete explanation about whether or not this was Joyce or the First.
 
and one would come to the conclusion after reading that thread that we are no where near the truth than when we started. Because there was a debate in that thread on Jane's true intentions with answering the interview.
 
As I recall that was me debating, and if you read to the end you'll discover I had to eat crow, and admit I was wrong.

Joss came out later at a convention, or something, and clarified the situation.

Audience: Conversations With Dead People - what was attacking Joyce, was that the First?

Joss: "That was the First, she was just messing with Dawn to sort of create a little rift. And then Buffy sort of not choosing her works; it was a benign thing, a warning casting the seeds of death
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http://www.cityofangel.com/behindThe.../sdcc03_2.html

That one is also in the Whedonverse index.

https://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=18455

It's also in the oft-asked questions in Inside Out
 
If you accept that it was Joyce/the First (which i do) that means that the demon who was doing all the creepy stuff was actually trying to protect Dawn (or was it all the First doing everything? and if that was the case then who did Dawn banish with the bowl of glitter? and if it was all the first why didn't it ever get up to the whole chair stacking, appliance powering and writing on the wall with blood again cos that was much creepier than appearing as Warren and Jonothan?)
 
P
Panda
couldn't agree more. if it was all the first it really f-ed with her.
maybe if all of it was the first just messing with dawn.. if dawn felt that she was saving her mom from something evil then she HAD to be good.. therefore was more prone to listen to her. dawn was a pretty smart kid. maybe the first wanted to make sure she would believe that it was her mother.
 
was dawn scratched by by the demon. Im not sure, i have to go back and check,but i think it scratched her on the cheek. if it was the first wouldnt that be not possible since it couldn't be corporeal
 
Dawn was scratched, but then something that powerful wouldn't need to be corporeal, as with the microwave, windows, writings on the wall, and other stuff.
Poltergeists are said to be non-corporeal, but they move objects. So it may be a mind over matter thing.
 
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the first can't physically touch anything or harm anyone, I think Warren/The First mentions this to Andrew at one point. Also, if the First could touch things or hurt people it wouldn't have to manipulate the dead or have Caleb do it's dirty work.
 
If you pause the scene where the demon is beside Joyce, you'll laugh so hard.. The demon looks so fake and they made no effort to make it. It looked like a guy in a black suit, with fake arms taped onto him. On the commentary they said the demon was the same costume from a previous demon but painted or something. Anyways they also said that Joyce was also The First.
 
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