Innocence.

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Episode Innocence is one of my favourite episodes ever. Like I said in the in some of my post's that episode is big turning point for Bangel and show itself. I have one question: what do you think about Bangel sex scene? Buffy had a lot of sex scenes with Spike and Riley. They were open, sexy and sometimes rough. But with Angel we saw only few sex scenes. In Amends, that was ok, until he bites her. In IWRY we only see her laying on him. But their first time, that was something special. It wasn't sexy, or open, it was beautiful, how they were touching each other with their noses, and I truly think that scene is amazing. How about you?
 
I agree. It got bored seeing those Spike sex scenes after a while. When I re-watched the series I was like "oh, I forgot about this. That's a nice change." lol. I think it was like that with Angel because Buffy actually loved him, whereas with Spike it was only so she could "feel" something. It was a nice moment 🙂
 
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Eleftheria
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I think it's so much sexier than anything else we ever show, because it left so much to the imagination. It was intimate and secret- exactly the way passionate, beautiful love-making should be. 🙂 The "Innocence" scene is my favorite sex scene on the show, even though we really didn't get to see anything. 😉 I think what I was imagining was going on in my mind is waaaay hotter than anything they could have shown on TV. LOL
 
Flannen
Flannen
Oo-er, Missus! lol
PrincessBuffy16
PrincessBuffy16
Agree. It was mysterious, but that little piece showed us hot beautiful it was :)
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Emzzie
ohh naughty!
Nix
Nix
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Eleftheria
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I agree, I think this is one of the most tasteful sex scenes of the whole series. It is very well done and does portray the emotion and love between Buffy and Angel.

Although it's kinda tainted since finding out it's Joss and Marti Noxon (don't hold me to that one, can't remember which woman but I think it's her) do the 'noises'! 😛
 
PrincessBuffy16
PrincessBuffy16
Yes it's her.
BuffyElevated
BuffyElevated
Yeah when I found out Joss and Marti recorded the noises I was grossed out. LMFAO
I think that the main reason that the Buffy/Angel sex scene was so toned down was that Buffy was a minor having sex with an obviously much older man, not as in 200 year old vampire old as much as 25 year old man with 16 year old girl. In other words, she was jail bait, and Angel was committing statutory rape. I don't think thayt it was an accident that, after that onw time, Buffy remained celibate until entering college, when there could be no doubt that she was of legal age. I'm actually surprised that the infamous Censors allowed Joss to have that one scene. They would have gone into apoplexy if he had made it a regular thing.

And it just occurred to me that Buffy's first sex scene, in "Innocence," and what a lot of us consider her last sex scene, in "Chosen," (unless you think that Buffy and Spike spent that last night playing checkers) were both left entirely up to the viewers' imaginations, as both scenes faded to black before things got very steamy.
 
Wishing Oceans
Wishing Oceans
i like the innocence- chosen analogy :)
Oooh, good points, WA... I have thought about the underage sex thing before and often wondered if that was one reason why Buffy never got pelvic with any more guys after Angel and before Parker. But I never thought about the first and final sex scenes being 'blacked out'. 🙂
 
I just think all the Angel and Buffy scnenes are so sweet. I love Spuffy, but on screen it's always so nasty and seeing so much kinda ruins how special it is.
With Angel it's just so lovely (as in LOVE) like they really actually like each other. Not like the ones with Riley where it looks like it's the hulk on her and not like the Spike ones, bamn bamn, lotsa punches and smashing and rough.
 
I heared about underage sex, but that wasn't so clear for me, I didn't saw it that way, I was happy for her. Well that was only happy moment in that episode so.. but I never thought about that sex scene that way.
 
I heared about underage sex, but that wasn't so clear for me, I didn't saw it that way, I was happy for her. Well that was only happy moment in that episode so.. but I never thought about that sex scene that way.


I think that that may be why they had it be such a happy moment. They didn't want you to see it that way and if Angel and her had started getting it on like she and Spike eventually do, than I think in our heads we'd all be screaming "RAPE!!!!"
 
Here we are, at the episode that changed the direction the series was going to take. Instead of having season after season of endless monster of the week goofiness, we get a show that's powerful, dramatic, funny, action-packed, and gut-wrenching, the resulting fight with Angelus is very personal and ends with Buffy not being able to kill him and settling with kicking him where it hurts. This is my personal favourite; the acting was 1 st rate... No wonder this episode got the highest rating on the whole show 8 million viewers.
 
PrincessBuffy16
PrincessBuffy16
Agree. Love it.
Here we are, at the episode that changed the direction the series was going to take. Instead of having season after season of endless monster of the week goofiness, we get a show that's powerful, dramatic, funny, action-packed, and gut-wrenching, the resulting fight with Angelus is very personal and ends with Buffy not being able to kill him and settling with kicking him where it hurts. This is my personal favourite; the acting was 1 st rate... No wonder this episode got the highest rating on the whole show 8 million viewers.

Exactly... I LOVED that all of a sudden a show known for being campy and silly was dramatically heartbreaking and exploring some very DEEP feelings. This was the episode that I was officially hooked.
 
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ukkid09
Same, Great episode ;)!
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thevikingsgirl
Definitely a turning point. I was surprised at my emotional reaction at this point.
Oooh, good points, WA... I have thought about the underage sex thing before and often wondered if that was one reason why Buffy never got pelvic with any more guys after Angel and before Parker. But I never thought about the first and final sex scenes being 'blacked out'. 🙂

Depending on what you believe Buffy's last sex scene was with Spike (Chosen or at least As You Were), RJ in Him or the Shadowmen's demon in Get It Done. Joss said he deliberately left it vague as to what Buffy and Spike did on their last night together as he didn't want to send the wrong message of Buffy having sex with her rapist?

Innocence

The Good;
As Joss says "Buffy in pain, show good!" And he really puts her, Jenny and Giles through the wringer here (Willow also has her pain but Oz is there to thankfully not kiss it better) But you know what? It doesn't matter because in the final scene she ends up back in Joyce's loving arms (and probably Dawn's too in everyone's memory) and it's all too beautiful for words.
Stunningly brilliant in every way, quite possibly the best episode of Buffy ever.

The Bad;
Ummmmmm?
Actually one thing I don't like is Angelus killing the hooker in the alley (She is lovely in a trashy sort of way, the Gorch's were wrong!). Such a misogynistic cliche, couldn't he have killed some guy emptying the bins or something?

Best line;
Xander (to Cordy) "Wear something trashy...er" (unkind actually as CC's outfit is very nice although a little school-uniformish).
Plus;
Giles; "I'd say we've hit rock bottom"
Xander; "I have a plan"
Cordy; "Oh no, there's a lower place!"
But best dialogue;
Joyce; "So how was your birthday?"
Buffy; "Got older"
Joyce "You don't look any different to me" (nice contrast between the scene where Joyce senses something different about Buffy after she's lost her virginity)

Questions and observations;
So much good stuff, the dream sequence and the scene where Angelus kills Jenny's uncle especially good. But how does he know he's in town? Did Dru have a vision?
So Sunnydale has it's own army base (couldn't the Initiative have been based there?) as well as an airport big enough for a 747, zoo, docks etc Not bad for a town of under 40,000. How come Spike is prepared to destroy the world now but not in Becoming pt2? You can start to see his jealousy of Dru and Angelus almost from the start, without Darla the Fanged Four are out of balance. Although, like the Harvest or Adam or the Mayor turning into a big snake it would have been bad but would the Judge really have been the end of the world? Buffy using a firearm is a rare sight (I always thought she chucked it away afterwards but obviously she saves it for Season 7 'Him', couldn't she have used it on Adam or Glory?). It was always one of the things that troubled me about the supernatural threat, that really faced with modern technology they're not really up to much (love the Judge's ignorance of what he's facing followed inevitably by death) Buffy says she beat up Willy the Snitch again. I think most people fell in love at this point with Oz, ironically because he DOESN'T want to kiss Willow. Jenny leaves the Scoobies here and realistically will never get back in. Alison Hannigan shows some superb acting skills upon her discovery but all the actors really shine here. Oz joins the Scoobies from the beginning. This makes the Scoobs offically;
1. Buffy
2. Giles
3. Willow
4. Xander
5. Angel (for the course of the ep at least)
6. Jenny
7. Cordy
8. Oz
the biggest they'll ever be until season 5

10/10 and more of I could make it, just superb and a whole new era for Buffy
 
"Innocence" is a an amazing episode!Great story and great performances!!!I think this is the episode where SMG said that she was crying in a scene for 25 mins...i believe it's the scene when she returns home and she lies to bed(before she has the dream about last night with Angel)...they thought she was having a nervous breakdown!!!truly emotional episode!!!i love every part!

I think it was very romantic that they showed very little of Angel and Buffy's first time...it doesn't matter they showed so little...it was still passionate and true love...i haven't seen season 6 but i have seen some videos on youtube about Spuffy...i personally don't like it...everytime they showed a sex scene of Buffy and Angel it was always so passionate and it was a declaration of their true love...not lust,or hate,or need...that is just my personal opinion...so no offense to the Spuffy fans! 😉

I absolutely adore the rocket launcher scene...Buffy is so determined there...The Judge did not see that coming!and the fight between her and Angelus...and the final kick...he fell on his knees!amazing!

and of course the "i got older" scene...in the loving arms of her mother...

great episode!
 
Yes Sarah cried 30 minutes on the scene, and David was the only one who could comfort her 🙂 Awwww how nice 🙂 She beged Joss that he doesn't make her to do that after sex scene, she said that was the hardest thing for her to do 🙁 I felt so bad for her.
 
^ I know!!! how sweet that David was there for her!!!and that's not the only time he comforted her!I have read somewhere that James Marsters once said that "someone wasn't treating Sarah very well(on the set i think) and David wanted to kill him"!!!and also in "Angel" IWRY...the i"ll never forget scene...he says "shhh Sarah please!"...I love SMG!!!she was so much inside the role!I am certain she is BANGEL fan herself! 😉
 
Reputedly SMG wasn't a big fan of Spuffy which she felt demeaning so yes, BuffyandAngel4ever!

Personally though the scene between Buffy and Joyce is the nicest in the ep and possibly the world
 
Yeah, Sarah and David had a really nice relathionship. I wonder what ever happened to them. And I'm so glad she loves Bangel, because she is Buffy, she knows what is best for her 🙂

And saturn5 I really liked Buffy/Joyce scene, especially Buffy's speach.
 
I think both James and Sarah weren't fans of Spuffy...i belive they have said so in some interviews...Sarah had said that she felt uncomfortable in a sex scene she had in season 6...in a balcony i think,i don't know i haven't seen any episodes of season 6 yet.James himself said that Spuffy wasn't healthy relationship and that he preferred Dru as a match for Spike...

She is definitely BANGEL fan...the woman was crying because Buffy was fighting evil Angel...and David said that it was easy to play evil but hard to watch Buffy crying!how sweet!

I really don't know if anything happened between David and Sarah...David has been very protective of her(by the way there is a blooper in youtube about I only have eyes for you...watch it if you haven't already! poor Sarah so tired and David is so sweet)
 
Yeah David is very over protective over Sarah. Once James said that someone on the set was bad to Sarah, and David wanted to kill him. lol. how sweet 🙂🙂🙂🙂
 
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