Innocence.

@ PrincessBuffy16 yeah!!!i know that incident!!!i think i have posted it somewhere in this forum but don't remember where! so sweet!
 
Actually, I don't really like this episode at all. And not just because I'm a spuffy fan. I did like evil Angelus, especially his interactions with Spike [gotta love that Spangel 😀] but I was a bit annoyed with Buffy the whole time and thought that the plotline was a bit boring.

While Buffy was crying, the only thing I could think was "girl, you brought this upon yourself." 🙂 I know, I'm evil, but I think that Buffy had acted really rashly so her feeling sorry for herself was super annoying to me.

I just wasn't that into it. 😀
 
she brought this to herself?But poor Buffy 🙁...how could she know?Not even Angel himself knew about the "hole" in his curse...about experiencing the moment of true happiness...the one who is really at fault is Jenny Calendar...if she had warned them they would be more careful!
 
Wishing Oceans said:
Actually, I don't really like this episode at all. And not just because I'm a spuffy fan. I did like evil Angelus, especially his interactions with Spike [gotta love that Spangel 😀] but I was a bit annoyed with Buffy the whole time and thought that the plotline was a bit boring.

While Buffy was crying, the only thing I could think was "girl, you brought this upon yourself." 🙂 I know, I'm evil, but I think that Buffy had acted really rashly so her feeling sorry for herself was super annoying to me.

I just wasn't that into it. 😀
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I think its strange to say that the plotline was boring when for many people it is THE turning point for the show, the first plot line a lot of people found totally gripping. But, each to their own, as always.

I don't actually think that Buffy acted rashly, not entirely anyway. Even when Giles says she acted rashly I disagree, which is probably the ONLY time I will ever disagree with that man. If she had have known what was going to happen if they slept together then yes, I would say her action was rash. But let's not forget that since season two, the nature of the curse and how it would be removed has been explored a lot further. We were initially, well I was, led to believe that Angel having sex is what would cause him to lose his soul, but sex actually has nothing to do with it. The sexual act between Angel and Buffy just happened to be something so powerful as to cause Angel to forget his past 'sins'. But it might not have been sex that could have caused this, it was just a pretty distinctive way to show that 'moment of true happiness'. Basically, Angel and Buffy had NO idea at all that Angelus would return through this encounter so how is that rash?

I also don't actually think it's something considered rash in the sense of her rushing into it. I don't think there's anything rash about having sex someone you love and are in love with, that you trust and someone that you have reached that stage with. Buffy wasn't crying over her decision to have sex with him, she only regretted the consequence of doing so, which neither of them could have imagined to happen. She was crying over the fact that she had lost the person she loved to a monster. And I think I'd cry about that too.

Buffy has done MANY things that I find super annoying too, but this isn't one of them. It's not until the later seasons of the show that she starts to irritate me!
 
I agree with Flannen. I mean, his moment of true happiness could be something else. We found out that's it after they sleep together. But for me that was beautiful. He just forgot. He forgot everything, his mind was empty because he knew he is with her. He was truly happy and I think he's never going to be happier. For me, that was a beautiful scene 😀
 
Flannen,girl,couldn't agree more!you are definitely right!

The worst thing during the second half of the second season is seeing Buffy so sad,believing deep down that she was responsible for that(although she isn't)...i rememeber her face expression in I only have eyes for you...she still loved Angel so much,she told Angelus that he was the only one who could understand her(because he has Angel's memories)...🙁

and about the last seasons i don't know if she is irritating because i haven't properly watched them...but just the Spuffy thing will irritate me...i know that beforehand...i excuse my dear Buffy cause she was incredibly damaged and depressed...🙁
 
About the rushing thing. First of all, they were 'ripe' for each other, it would have happened sooner or later. But they could have told Giles that they've lost that part of the Judge first, a phone call maybe and Jenny could told them about the curse.

But that's the story.
 
ubi4soft said:
About the rushing thing. First of all, they were 'ripe' for each other, it would have happened sooner or later. But they could have told Giles that they've lost that part of the Judge first, a phone call maybe and Jenny could told them about the curse.

But that's the story.
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Yeah, I agree that it might have panned out differently if Buffy had have thought to mention to someone, Willow being the most likely person, that something had happened between them. If she'd have got in touch a bit sooner as opposed to be in all mopey about it then a lot could have done to prevent a lot of things that happened when Angelus returned. But like you say, that's the story and we could talk about what could have been forever.

I suppose her behaviour afterwards were irrational, understandably so I guess, but I still I'd go as far to say they were rash.
 
U
ubi4soft
That's the beauty of the story, they were so into each other they forgot about the "immediate apocalypse"
I think that this episode was great and well made with emotion and of course then dictated the courseof the stories with Angel returning to his Angelus state. I always thought that Jenny should have come clean instead of being found out later. She, could have told Giles and Buffy about the curse this may have saved complications later.

But I do ask one thing, did Angel himself know the full extent of the curse upon him? Because the gypsies who cursed him were only asking for trouble later knowing full it would be like a time bomb as Angel would find someone special and have a passionate time. They were upset about there young female being killed, but their curse would cause more carnage when broken.
 
Grey Ghost said:
But I do ask one thing, did Angel himself know the full extent of the curse upon him? Because the gypsies who cursed him were only asking for trouble later knowing full it would be like a time bomb as Angel would find someone special and have a passionate time. They were upset about there young female being killed, but their curse would cause more carnage when broken.
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I don't think he did. He certainly didn't at that point or he never would have let it happen. But I also think that for a time he thought it was the act of sex itself. He's pretty confused, and surprised, to still have his soul after sleeping with Darla.

As for the gypsies, I guess that they were either naive to think no one would ever be able to love him, or that he would be so consumed by guilt he wouldn't think about doing anything that would make him happy. That's my theory, or theories anyway.
 
Flannen said:
I don't think he did. He certainly didn't at that point or he never would have let it happen. But I also think that for a time he thought it was the act of sex itself. He's pretty confused, and surprised, to still have his soul after sleeping with Darla.

As for the gypsies, I guess that they were either naive to think no one would ever be able to love him, or that he would be so consumed by guilt he wouldn't think about doing anything that would make him happy. That's my theory, or theories anyway.
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I love David's comment on Angel not loosing his soul after sleeping with Darla. He just said "Who said that was the moment of true happiness?". And that was enough for me.
I know when I was about 10 I wondered why Angel lived so long. I mean so many vampires have died, but he lived. I always belived that was because he was waiting for Buffy. He was waiting 243 years for her 😀
 
Flannen said:
I think its strange to say that the plotline was boring when for many people it is THE turning point for the show, the first plot line a lot of people found totally gripping. But, each to their own, as always.

I don't actually think that Buffy acted rashly, not entirely anyway. Even when Giles says she acted rashly I disagree, which is probably the ONLY time I will ever disagree with that man. If she had have known what was going to happen if they slept together then yes, I would say her action was rash. But let's not forget that since season two, the nature of the curse and how it would be removed has been explored a lot further. We were initially, well I was, led to believe that Angel having sex is what would cause him to lose his soul, but sex actually has nothing to do with it. The sexual act between Angel and Buffy just happened to be something so powerful as to cause Angel to forget his past 'sins'. But it might not have been sex that could have caused this, it was just a pretty distinctive way to show that 'moment of true happiness'. Basically, Angel and Buffy had NO idea at all that Angelus would return through this encounter so how is that rash?

I also don't actually think it's something considered rash in the sense of her rushing into it. I don't think there's anything rash about having sex someone you love and are in love with, that you trust and someone that you have reached that stage with. Buffy wasn't crying over her decision to have sex with him, she only regretted the consequence of doing so, which neither of them could have imagined to happen. She was crying over the fact that she had lost the person she loved to a monster. And I think I'd cry about that too.

Buffy has done MANY things that I find super annoying too, but this isn't one of them. It's not until the later seasons of the show that she starts to irritate me!
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I've always believed in waiting until marriage. 🙂
 
I have always loves this episode. It will always be in my top ten. In terms of sex scenes I love the I will remember you episode of Angel. Those were some great Bangel moments.
 
I'm watching this episode right now. I LOVE the scene where Angel and Buffy meet again for the first time since they did the deed.

He's SOOOOOOO brutally mean to her.

Although it kind of reminds me of how much emphasis was put on my "first time". I didn't find it to be a big magical moment, but my GF of the time was hell bent on it being meaningful and important. Obviously Angels' reaction wasn't anything like mine, haha, but I think the show did a good job portraying a difference between men and women in this era.

Also that whole adage that Sex changes things is show in dramatic fashion in this episode!

EDIT:

Uh... Also, could you imagine a guy with his body and with 240+ years of sexual experience? That was probably the most impressive "first time" ever. Just a thought.
 
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