INTO THE WOODS-byebye Riley (for a season at least)

[Eleftheria]

I didn't like the fact that Buffy discovered what Riley was doing...in that way. But she had to know.And btw Riley and vamp whore...I never expected that from him! And I felt sorry for Buffy when Riley left with that helicopter 🙁

And also after having watched season 5 and most of season 6(at last!!!) I am able to say that although Riley may have loved Buffy and Buffy surely cared about him and was attracted to him...there was no real love there from her side. Riley might be a symbol of a more normal life perhaps. And Riley realises that Buffy is not crying so much in front of him than she used to do with Angel. The problem is in general that they both fail to express their feelings to each other. While Buffy had always turned to Angel for help and shared things.

 

[BillyidolwannaB]

I'm currently watching this, and i never cease to be amazed at how much Buffy was such a goddamn baby in this ep. Xanders speech to her is one of his finest moments in the full series.

 

[saturn5]

I'm currently watching this, and i never cease to be amazed at how much Buffy was such a goddamn baby in this ep. Xanders speech to her is one of his finest moments in the full series.

Can't have been nice for her to walk in on Riley with the vampwhores. And she's been a little busy with her moms brain tumour and a hellgod chasing after her little sis to worry about Riley.
Overall I think Spike is right, she needs a little demon in her man. Or woman. She loved Riley but not like she loved Angel

 

[faeriegrrl27]

About time we lost Riley. I can sort of see his side of things, but he had a real issue with Buffy being independent. Maybe if he hadn't been so into her... It's just he loved her and she didn't love him and he couldn't deal with it. Plus, he was raised in a predominantly patriarchal society, which Buffy threatens with her very existence. This is perhaps the first *big* thing that indicates Xander's ultra-perceptiveness as a result of his lack of supernatural powers. He unbelievably sweet speech to Anya at the end might have brought me to tears is I hadn't been so happy about getting rid of Riley. Still, it's heartbreaking watching Buffy run to catch the helicopter and then seeing Riley in the foreground looking away and in the back we can just see Buffy waving her arms. It's a dilemma when I can't figure out which I hate more: Riley or seeing Buffy hurt.

 

[Professor Walsh]

I don't think Riley really had issues with Buffy being independent. It was more a question of feeling that she did not need him *at all*.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

I don't think Riley really had issues with Buffy being independent. It was more a question of feeling that she did not need him *at all*.

But she did needed him, just not in the way he wanted. I think he had the all-guy problem, she was stronger that him, he felt like she is the one who is a man in that relathionship, especialy after he got weak, he didn't wanted her help because he thought it should be other way around - he should help her.

 

[Professor Walsh]

I don't think this was as much about a macho ideal about the knight protecting the princess as it was about Riley's need to *matter* to the one he loved. In feeling that she did not need him, he also felt that she did not love him. To feel loved without feeling needed needs a very deep sense of trust in the relationship.

 

[LadyLavinia]

About time we lost Riley. I can sort of see his side of things, but he had a real issue with Buffy being independent. Maybe if he hadn't been so into her... It's just he loved her and she didn't love him and he couldn't deal with it. Plus, he was raised in a predominantly patriarchal society, which Buffy threatens with her very existence.

Man, I do NOT agree with that last statement about Riley. I do believe he may have been taken a bit surprised that Buffy was stronger than him, when he first discovered that she was the Slayer. But come on! Buffy threatened his position in a predominantly patriarchal society? Oh please!

Riley's problem was that he always revolved his life around something or someone. This was especially true in his relationships with two females - Dr. Maggie Walsh and Buffy Summers. He certainly had NO problems taking orders from Dr. Walsh. And he learned to accept Buffy as the Slayer. But . . . he revolved his life around them, instead of establishing himself as his own man.

Look at how tough it was for him to dismiss Maggie Walsh as his authority figure. Look at how he failed to forge a life for himself outside of Buffy in Season 5. I'm not blaming Dr. Walsh and Buffy for this. I'm blaming Riley. I only hope that with his marriage with Sam, he finally learned to have an equal relationship with a woman, instead of allowing her to dominate his life.

 

[faeriegrrl27]

Lady (can I call you that? Sorry... we're not really acquainted well...)

I think I misspoke earlier. I didn't mean to say that Riley still lived in a patriarchal society. But, given that he grew up in rural Iowa, it's not too great a leap to infer that his childhood was dictated by a patriarchy. And I didn't mean to suggest that he had a problem with woman authority. Obviously, like you said, he was fine taking orders from Walsh, but I do think he had a problem with a woman being physically stronger than him. I guess I didn't phrase myself well at all. Sorry. Oh, and I also didn't mean that Buffy threatened his position. I meant she threatened the values he'd grown up with.

 

[Wild At Heart]

I love the whole scene with Anya & Willow. "Thank you Willow for taking time out of your busy life to come and get in the way of mine." LOL!!! Xander's speech to Buffy at the end tears me up & I found myself cheering for Buffy to catch him because I really don't think she realized that she had shut down after Angel left. But everything happens for a reason & Buffy & Riley just weren't meant to be. This is a great episode though.

 

[Vengeance]

To me it just felt like the writers wanted to do away with this pairing. As Xander says "the guy would do anything for you" but then he decides to leave? He doesn't try to work it out with her? I just think him giving her an ultimatum is out of character for him, if he loved her so much why didn't he put more effort into making it work? I can't help thinking if he just gave it a little more time they could've worked out, although I suppose he didn't know Xander was going to intervene on his behalf.

 

[Misty]

I don't feel sorry for Riley at all in this episode because he's the one that was cheating on Buffy with a bunch of vampire prostitutes, and I'm proud of Spike for showing Buffy what Riley was doing because she did need to know and I actually felt sorry for her because Joyce was getting very sick when she finds out her boyfriend is cheating on her.

 

[Jojo3000]

Even though I was slightly repelled by Riley in season 4 as it went the macho-man route, I really felt for him in season 5 (good writers) and it was Xander who did a lot of the convincing for me...

Sure, he felt alienated and cheated (by the way, the prostitute metaphor was dealt with much better than the durg metaphor in season 6) but do you really want to never see that guy again after everything they have been through? Isn't that a little rash? A sign of maturity is knowing when both parties are wrong and working it out even if it takes a loooot of time.

I also liked it when Riley steaks Spike.

 

[Bungle Jerry]

Might be schadenfreude, but I cheer everytime I watch this episode. Yay! No more Riley!

I don't really know what the writers were aiming for with the Riley character, but they didn't pull it off. Or perhaps they pulled off perfectly an undesirable character. But I have really nothing good to say about Riley. I mean, really... he carries a plastic stake with fake wood grain? Why?

 

[Marisa]

I liked Riley I thought he was adorable do i think him and Buffy were good together at times. In season 4 they were okay but I always felt that she never wanted to let Riley completely in. He should not have cheated on her especially with what was going on. Riley was okay but he wasn't great enough to make me say he was needed in the series after season 4.

 

[Taake]

I wasn't sorry to see the back of Riley ultimately, it was kind of a "don't go away mad, just go away" feeling there but I have to say that I am always kind of annoyed by Xander butting into Buffy's lovelife again.

I mean I get he's her friend there to give advice yadi-yadi-yada... but he never really seems interested in her point of view of things.
It's like, he liked Riley therefore he wanted Buffy to do so too, regardless of whatever reasons she had for shutting down with said guy. I just really want Buffy to tell him to butt out.

 

[dan k]

Just watched this episode and really enjoyed it.

Its been mentioned already but the training room scene is so good that i watched it twice. Its one of those rare moments when Riley gets everything off his chest, the only thing that isn't said is why doesn't she let him in. Buffy totally ignores the question Riley needs answering.

Of course he did the wrong thing about letting himself get bitten but i can totally understand why he acted in that way. Here's a guy who doesn't feel loved and what's infuriating is that Buffy didn't understand why he felt like that.

Its quite evident that she didn't let him in into her heart like she did with Angel. At Joyce's funeral Angel arrives and Buffy opens her heart out to him. She never does that with Riley. When her mum goes to hospital she doesn't open up to Riley, she feels a need to stay strong. That wouldn't happen with Angel, she'd actually confess to not being strong like she does at Joyce's funeral when he returns.

I don't fully understand why this is the case. I believe she loved him, she's so adamant she did by telling him "this is the package, i can't do anything else".

I just think that she didn't realize that she wasn't letting him in. Subconsciously she didn't love Riley like she loved Angel. Maybe that was down to what happened with Angel and she unwittingly didn't let Riley in because of it.

The Xander speech is one of those moments where Xander takes the spotlight and you just love him for it. Its typical Xander which is also seen in season 6 when he gives the speech to Willow and in season 7 when he speaks to Dawn and tells the Potentials to trust Buffy. It shows how much he cares about his friends, what a kind hearted person he is. Dependable, something Buffy could never love romanticially during the television show at least but someone who she loved as a friend dearly.

 

[Ms.Trick]

I never really liked Riley.
He was sometimes a little bit small-minded or really annoying, but no one's perfect...

The rest of the time, he was just fine but...I think he never had that little spark that makes someone special.

For me, is relationship with Buffy was not really meant to be. In season 4, when she says to Willow "I don't know...He's...fine but..." and Willow answers "What? He doesn't make you miserable enough?" (or something like that), Buffy doesn't deny. It always made me think that no matter what, she would never really change her mind about him.
Then they start dating and everything is swell and Buffy does seem to love him!

And then, in season 5, before Buffy's mum starts being sick, Riley says to Xander "She doesn't love me". And you see them for the first time from someone else's point of view: Xander's.

Since that moment, I started to feel a bit for Riley, but on the other hand, I also felt for Buffy.
Seeing her forcing herself to be always strong for her mother and sister is really heart-breaking.
I don't think it is all about Buffy not worrying about Riley, I think it's about her being too busy to try to be strong to realise how bad things become between Riley and her.

Then Spike the messenger arrives and shows her.
She finds out that her lover is cheating on her.
I feel awful for her. I mean, she tries to be strong and doesn't open up to Riley, so his solution is to go seeing vampwhores.
But in the same time, I understand that Riley wanted to feel needed.

During their fight in the training room, I can see both's point and can't really make up my mind.
But I feel sorry for Riley when he begs Buffy to hit him and she just ignore him.
There's a popular belief that says that "It's good to be loved, but to be hated isn't the worst. Indifference is."
And Buffy was so mad that she was completly indifferent to his begging.

In the end, Xander proves that he is indeed "the guy who sees everything", like Caleb calls him before...:sick4:
I've read a few people saying that he makes his speech without caring about Buffy's point of view, but I disagree with that.
It's just the point of view of an outsider and I think what he says is pretty fair.
His speech even made me like Riley a lil bit more! It made me understood that Buffy DID treat Riley like Rebound-Guy for all this time, and he was indeed the kind of man she'd just meet once in her life: non-dangerous, healthy, strong, loving, with a soul...In a way, he was Buffy's Prince Charming (but everyone knows that the real, perfect, flawless Prince Charming is a bit annoying :tongue3🙂

When Buffy ran for Riley, I did wished a bit that she arrived there on time. It would have been annoying for the story, but her character would have maybe been happy in love for a very long time!

And Xander's speech for Anya was...
You know, my eyes were wet when Buffy was too late, but when we see Xander talking to Anya, it is just beautiful, I bursted into tears. You see that they trully love each other, it's the way things should have been between Buffy and Riley.
And Anya seemed sad when she wanted to have sexcapades and Xander told her "No, I have things to take care of".
When she stands off her bed, I had this impression that she had spent the night dealing with her new human feeling, wondering if Xander still loved her if he had business to take care of that wasn't her...And then, you see in her eyes how touched she is by Xander's speech. He was perfect!


I really loved that episode :apprentices_apprent

 

[VisionGirl]

1st of all, let's get out of the way how awesome Buffy was while slaying that pack of vamps. Very cool scene. But how gross the blood-sucking whore with Riley, ick.

I actually think the scene in the training room between Riley and Buffy was one of the first times I got annoyed with Buffy as a character and felt like I needed to pull her to one side and give her a good talking to. I think this is the first time that her superiority complex rears its ugly head and I have never and will never lay the blame for the way Riley feels at his feet.

I agree with this. Buffy is my fav character in the Buffyverse. I often feel the need to defend her actions & decisions. But in this relationship, I do find fault with her.

I don't understand why you get annoyed by this. Buffy's mom just got out from a terrible surgery, Dawn her sister was hunted down by Glory, a powerful creature which beat down Buffy, so here comes Riley asking for her attention and giving an ultimatum.

But it's so clearly not about this. It's not about his need for attention, it's about his need to feel that he is truly a partner in this relationship. Yes, I think there's issues for him with her power as a Slayer. And I think he just doesn't know his place in his own life anymore, what with his quitting the Initiative and its dissolution. Graham hits the nail on the head about it in Listening to Fear.

But back to Buffy...she was simply unable to truly give herself to Riley. Was it because of her heartbreak with Angel? Was it because he was a normal guy, and as a Slayer that's just never going to be enough? I don't know, probably both. I did think she had some deep feelings for him that seemed to go beyond just having him around as a boy-toy. At least I think we see that in season 4 anyway, less so this season. The events in Restless were pretty pivotal for her, and I think affected this relationship as well.

As far as Xander goes: I think he's brave in his speech to Buffy. Is he right? Well, he did say that if she didn't really love him, she should let him go. I guess she decided that she did indeed love him (or did she just love the "idea" of him and this "normal" relationship). Yeah, I'm not convinced. I was not actually not bothered by Xander "butting in". It's what he does. What does bother me is how infrequently he does it. For someone who is supposed to be "the heart" of the organization, I wish we had seen more of that. There are very pivotal moments in the show for him, it's just not enough for me to earn him that title.

But man, there's some strong Rander vibes here! Xander has always been in love with Riley! 😉

(by the way, the prostitute metaphor was dealt with much better than the durg metaphor in season 6)

ITA with this. It was gross, but a good, graphic demonstration of the downhill slide of this relationship.

RIP Briley. No matter how you felt about it, it is a sad episode. 🙁

P.S. I wondered about the dedication at the end and found this on Wikipedia (everyone else probably knows but me!):

This episode is dedicated to D.C. Gustafson, a member of the series' art department, who died on November 4, 2000. He was a close friend of Sarah Michelle Gellar.[

 

[VisionGirl]

Oh, and I forgot that in the midst of all this emotional angst is some truly funny dialogue. One of the funniest moments in the entire series for me:

ANYA: Oh. Who ordered more chickens' feet? The ones we have aren't moving at all.
XANDER: That's generally what happens when you cut them off the chicken.
ANYA: I'm serious. Maybe we could do a ... holiday promotion. One free with every purchase!
GILES: Oh, yeah. Dear holiday memories. Merry tykes by the fire, enjoying their new Christmas ... chicken feet.
WILLOW: Aw, holding them tight as they fall asleep. Painting their little toenails.
ANYA: That's so very humorous. Make fun of the ex-demon! I can just hear you in private. 'I dislike that Anya. She's newly human and strangely literal.'

And Buffy's Bible Study comment. Joyce's comeback is classic: "Well, good. I mean, just as long as the two of you are spending some quality time with ... the lord."