io9's James Marsters interview

Why should Spuffies become upset if Spike has some recreation on the side? I haven't heard many Bangels wailing about Buffy doing the same thing for a whole lot longer with Riley. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but the way I see it, if Buffy's too dumb to appreciate Spike, that doesn't mean that the entire female population of the Whedonverse has to be dumb as well.

I have seen Spuffy fans RAGING and SCREAMING because Spike 'betrayed' Buffy by sleeping with Harmony in AtS S5 and again in A&F, and that was someone he was with before Buffy and it took place after Spike supposedly tried to distance himself from Buffy. Never mind what Spike got up to in AtF. They said that it wasn't 'their' Spike, because he wasn't Angel and would never, ever move on or get over Buffy. The fact that Spike was supposedly so in love with Buffy at the point this story is set and was supposed to be trying to work things out with her so that they could have a real relationship, yet he leaves her and sleeps with someone else tells me that certain fans are going to be even more upset by this.

And I'm not touching that 'dumb' comment with a ten-foot pole.

And while nothing in the comics may contradict the televised series, something in Season 8 does change what Joss designated as canon. The final battle against Twilight was supposed to be the last great battle that blasted all of the demons out of Buffy's dimension, taking Buffy and all of her friends with them (to the Twilight universe, I suppose) That was confirmed by Joss. Buffy and her allies winning that battle created an anomaly that should have cancelled out Fray's future. So, canon has been changed at least once, if only the comic book section of it.

No, the comics - at the moment - don't contradict the TV series. But this comic WILL. As the show stands right now, Spike never left Sunnydale after he returned from getting his soul until he 'died' and ended up in LA. Spike hadn't been with anyone but Buffy and Anya and Harmony (his date for the wedding is still a question mark) since his chip was put in. Yet this comic apparently has him not only leaving Sunnydale for an extended period of time, something we never saw, but also has him pursuing another relationship with an OC, something that was never mentioned. That contradicts the canon of the show as we know it.

As far as Fray goes, Joss always said that it was a 'possible' future, and was never set in stone. And I still don't believe that it is the real future.
 
R
Robb Stark
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I have seen Spuffy fans RAGING and SCREAMING because Spike 'betrayed' Buffy by sleeping with Harmony in AtS S5 and again in A&F, and that was someone he was with before Buffy and it took place after Spike supposedly tried to distance himself from Buffy. Never mind what Spike got up to in AtF. They said that it wasn't 'their' Spike, because he wasn't Angel and would never, ever move on or get over Buffy. The fact that Spike was supposedly so in love with Buffy at the point this story is set and was supposed to be trying to work things out with her so that they could have a real relationship, yet he leaves her and sleeps with someone else tells me that certain fans are going to be even more upset by this.

And I'm not touching that 'dumb' comment with a ten-foot pole.

You've never heard me raving about Buffy's other lovers, or Spike's. I've even gone so far as to say that I have no problem with the notion that Buffy was in love with Angel, Riley, and Spike at different times and in different ways.

As for what Spike did, or was attempting to do when all hell broke loose, I'll let you have your ten foot pole if you'll let me have mine. I do think, though, that it was pretty much like his tirade aver Angel's blood. It had just been so long since he had been able to taste, or feel anything that he was overcome with the desire to savor his senses.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.
 
You've never heard me raving about Buffy's other lovers, or Spike's. I've even gone so far as to say that I have no problem with the notion that Buffy was in love with Angel, Riley, and Spike at different times and in different ways.

Uh...did I say that you'd ever said anything like that? No, I didn't. I never mentioned anyone by name, because very few of those people were even on this forum. I was talking about SOME fans, so I don't really understand why you seem to getting defensive and answering my post like I specifically called you out or questioned you specifically. I didn't.
 
That piece from Buffyfest above

Buffyfest: So Spike: Into the Light. There seems to be some confusion about when this story takes place. Is it between seasons 6 & 7 of Buffy? Right after Spike endures the trials that gave him his soul? Or is it more *during* season 7 of Buffy?

Scott Allie: It's during Season 7.

BF: He was pretty crazy at that time, will that be reflected in the story?

SA: This is a little bit later when his shit had chilled out a bit.

BF: Heh! And regarding the story, was it based off Joss's idea for the TV movie? Because that was to take place after the series ended.

SA: No, this was all James's idea. It's a story that I think he's been kicking around for a long time. The reason I wanted to do it was simple. We were backstage at some event at San Diego, and he started telling me the story. And he's the kind of actor who's a natural storyteller"”not all of them are. So he just rattled this thing off in a very fun way, the way you'd tell one of your favorite misadventures to a friend over a barstool. It just rolled, and I loved it right away. It's a small story, it's not a big turning point for the character. It's a fun story where a few diverse elements come together to tell the sort of story I think we've sort of lost, something real human and personal, where the fate of the world doesn't hang in the balance. But as he told me the story he was so much inside it, so connected to what it was about and how it connected to Spike on a simple level, that I really wanted to have that comic in my hand. I ran it by Joss and he was cool with it, so off we went.

BF: Speaking of, we all know that Mr. Whedon is totally swamped right now, but how much involvement did he have with this approval process? Has he read the story?

SA: We sent him the script and he said we could do it, but he hasn't really contributed or chimed in specifically, so it won't bare his name as exec producer. I told him the story in a nutshell, I think he had heard it from James before, and he gave it his blessing, but that's the extent of it.

BF: And how about your role as editor, did you find yourself having to edit the story to fit within the season 10 storyline? Or is it not tied together with the current events?

SA: James was great to work with on this, I did give him a bunch of notes that he was good about working with, but it doesn't tie into Season 10. James is a storyteller, he knows these characters, but he's new to comics, so he was very cool about working with us to make it best work as a comic, and he's been very respectful of the artist. He's had a couple notes to pass on to the artist but he's being really cool and collaborative about it. I gave him script notes, and he was great about it, but I'm not personally altering a word of dialogue, beyond the stuff that he changed at my suggestion. Before he wrote the script, we'd talked about setting it in Season 10, but felt like it made more sense as its own thing, and since it didn't in any way come out of the writers summit this spring, it didn't make sense to make it a part of Season 10 in a number of ways.

BF: Gotcha. So James wife Jasmine was the inspiration for the love interest, were you aware of this trivia tidbit?

SA: Yeah, that was part of the initial conversation, and the artist was provided a lot of reference to get her right. This isn't the story of James and Jasmine's life together"”it's just a sweet little story with some crazy action and a really nice view of Spike. Some people will be unhappy because how can Spike have a love interest in Season 7, when he loves Buffy. But this isn't Romeo and Juliet"”in that it's not an epic love story. This is a beautiful, personal little story where we get into Spike's head in a nice, intimate, though small way. The story covers a little more than 24 hours of Spike's life, and just gives him this great moment to get the hell out of Sunnydale and get in touch with himself.

BF: Were you shocked that James even wanted to bring the idea of another girl in Spike's life? That seems bold since it's in the middle of Spike's full-on Buffy conquest.

SA: It is a little bold, and some people won't like that aspect of it. But I'm excited for people to see it, to read it. I'm glad to work with James again, and hopefully we'll do another one. We did something short a long time ago, and it maybe notoriously didn't go well, but I hope he agrees with me that this has gone pretty great.

And there you have it! Thanks so much Scott for clearing any fog and getting us all even more excited for Spike: Into the Light!


Yeah no interest in this.

Setting it during season 7 is so stupid, like unbelievably stupid. Spike wouldn't have had time to slip away for 24 hours, not to mention he was to dangerous to let slip away.

Anyone that wants to say they dont have a problem with Spike having another women for a day isn't thinking of what that means for season 7. If he doesn't tell Buffy about her by the end of the issue, it makes a lot of Spikes actions in season 7 really crappy, his various speeches about how he did it for her, it's always been her and yada yada all become tarnished, and his jealously of Angel in Chosen becomes really pathetic.

I hate that wont just come out and say it's not cannon, thats a joke, but without Whedons name on it, I'm excluding it.

---------- Post added at 11:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 PM ----------

Not to mention Lyri is right, seeing how Allie was attacked before about his comments about Spuffy, there is a large chunk of the fanbase that are gonna have a problem with it, I also think most (not all) spike fans are Spuffy fans, so wont have interest in a spike and another women story.
 
Uh...did I say that you'd ever said anything like that? No, I didn't. I never mentioned anyone by name, because very few of those people were even on this forum. I was talking about SOME fans, so I don't really understand why you seem to getting defensive and answering my post like I specifically called you out or questioned you specifically. I didn't.

Hey, I'm not being defensive. I was just saying that I have no problem with the way that the Buffyverse handles its relationships. Even The Accursed One himself has fooled around with at least three humans and two vampires that we know of, plus been in a "Were we in love?" relationship with another. If the Buffyverse is nothing else, it's a swinging place. Compared to some, Spike's been living almost like a monk. If he wants to slip the traces occasionally, I've got no objections.
 
I wouldn't blame Spike for moving on and dating someone else. He deserves it. He left Buffy, and for good reason. He's not obligated to stick around forever until she realizes he's the One.

Spike dating someone else doesn't threaten me as a Spuffy. I know he'll never love anyone like he does Buffy, no one compares to her or replace her. He'd choose her over anyone else in a second.
 
But this isn't Spike moving on. It's Spike moving on for 24 hours, then going into Buffy and telling her she's the only one, if they set this in the current season it would make perfect sense, but setting it in season 7 is a bad decision.
 
Lyri
Lyri
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janas
janas
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brinkster130
brinkster130
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After reading through the responses to this thread, I have to ask. For the ones who have been saying that Spike "has no idea who he is" or "never does anything on his own", and who have said repeatedly that this is a core reason for disliking him, why would you object then to seeing a book where Spike literally does just that?

Yes, I understand the concerns about continuity, and no, I don't like when it's messed with either. That said, Joss frequently disregards his own rules and canon. All the time. So I have to ask, is the extreme negativity being generated towards "Into the Light" because of this, or because the prospect of Spike standing independent from Buffy or Angel threatens an entrenched view of a character you hate?
 
Blaze
Blaze
this
But this isn't Spike moving on. It's Spike moving on for 24 hours, then going into Buffy and telling her she's the only one, if they set this in the current season it would make perfect sense, but setting it in season 7 is a bad decision.

This.

Spike isn't moving on, his basically cheating on Buffy and going behind her back. This is going to be set towards the end of S7, when Buffy and Spike were supposedly mending their relationship, when Spike considered himself still loyal and faithful to Buffy, it was pretty much the only thing he thought he had going for him, and yet, according to this comic, he wasn't loyal or faithful at all. He went after someone else.

Look at all the backlash there was against Buffy when she dared to kiss Angel - ANGEL - at the same point this comic takes place. Why should it be different for Spike when he's doing the same thing?

It's changing canon, which leads me to believe it's NOT canon. Joss' name isn't anywhere near it, so I'm choosing to believe it's the same as the other comics set in the 'verse, like Viva Las Buffy or whatever it was called.
 
janas
janas
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Canon or not, a fact is sure. Scott Allie is going get hate from certain circles, and certainly would not be the first time.
 
[MENTION=6332]Lyri[/MENTION]
Spike isn't moving on, his basically cheating on Buffy and going behind her back. This is going to be set towards the end of S7, when Buffy and Spike were supposedly mending their relationship, when Spike considered himself still loyal and faithful to Buffy, it was pretty much the only thing he thought he had going for him, and yet, according to this comic, he wasn't loyal or faithful at all.

Spike's and Buffy's relationship in season 7 is not a romantic one. How is it cheating when they are not a couple? Yeah, he is loyal but as a friend, sex with another woman will not change that.
[MENTION=11975]Robb Stark[/MENTION]
Yes, I understand the concerns about continuity, and no, I don't like when it's messed with either. That said, Joss frequently disregards his own rules and canon. All the time.

And we are always extremely negative about it, are we not? Why should some comic get a free pass? Look, I want nothing more from Spike than to be his own man but not through a bloody retroactive continuity.
 
Blaze
Blaze
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brinkster130
brinkster130
[No message]
After reading through the responses to this thread, I have to ask. For the ones who have been saying that Spike "has no idea who he is" or "never does anything on his own", and who have said repeatedly that this is a core reason for disliking him, why would you object then to seeing a book where Spike literally does just that?

Yes, I understand the concerns about continuity, and no, I don't like when it's messed with either. That said, Joss frequently disregards his own rules and canon. All the time. So I have to ask, is the extreme negativity being generated towards "Into the Light" because of this, or because the prospect of Spike standing independent from Buffy or Angel threatens an entrenched view of a character you hate?

For me personally, it's because it reinforces my perception of Spike not having his own identity or purpose. That is entirely down to do with when in the story thus comic is being wedged into. Any agency Spike gains from this sidebar is utterly negated by the fact that we know he comes back and pretty much gives himself over entirely to Buffy again and establishes an identity as her "one and only friend."

Spike is essentially in the same emotional space now as he was in s7 in terms of trying to find a purpose or identity. Even if the comic's status remains non-canon, placing it in a time when we could actually believe in any growth Spike has in the story would have made all the difference to how people perceive it.
 
R
Robb Stark
Great post
[MENTION=6332]Lyri[/MENTION]

Spike's and Buffy's relationship in season 7 is not a romantic one. How is it cheating when they are not a couple? Yeah, he is loyal but as a friend, sex with another woman will not change that.

Not on the outside looking in, no, it's not a romantic relationship. But to SPIKE it is, it was the whole reason he went to get his soul, so that he would be the man that Buffy needs and he spent much of that season proving that he was a good man now, her champion.

Like I said, Buffy got a lot of stick for kissing Angel during the same time period, and Spike was extremely jealous when he witnessed it. Why? If we know Spike was off chasing other women?

Also, like [MENTION=7585]Kean[/MENTION] said, this comic seems to show Spike asserting himself and showing that he's his own man - yet, we know it's not true, because he goes right back to Sunnydale and any growth that we might get to see in this comic will be completely lost - like it never happened in the first place.
 
After reading through the responses to this thread, I have to ask. For the ones who have been saying that Spike "has no idea who he is" or "never does anything on his own", and who have said repeatedly that this is a core reason for disliking him, why would you object then to seeing a book where Spike literally does just that?

Yes, I understand the concerns about continuity, and no, I don't like when it's messed with either. That said, Joss frequently disregards his own rules and canon. All the time. So I have to ask, is the extreme negativity being generated towards "Into the Light" because of this, or because the prospect of Spike standing independent from Buffy or Angel threatens an entrenched view of a character you hate?

My very first post on this topic, said I liked the idea and thought it was interesting that James was showing more of an interest in the character of Spike, by getting something for himself, then Whedon has as Spike has no point in the comics.

The issue with this is purely when it's set, Spike is very devoted to Buffy in season 7, he is overly attached and doesn't grow as a character till the last episode, having him grow for one 24 hour period in season 7 but then going right back to being Buffys bitch, makes no sense. If they'd set this comics in the current season it would make WAY more sense. They have no idea what to do with Spike at the moment, they should have given him this story now.

Having him go after another women in season 7 is out of character for where Spikes mindset was in season 7, knowing he wont gain anything from the comic as it's slotted into season 7 makes the comic pointless for the character of Spike when it could have been used to do something with his character.

I deffinetly dont agree with the "prospect of Spike standing independent from Buffy or Angel threatens an entrenched view of a character you hate?" - as it doesn't, any development Spikes character has is nullified by the fact it doesn't change what happens to his character.

Though I will find it interesting arguing some of the often discussed points of season 7, like suddenly knowing Spike had some kinda relationship can completely change his speech in Touched:
"I've seen things you couldn't imagine, and done things I prefer you didn't. I don't exactly have a reputation for being a thinker. I follow my blood, which doesn't exactly rush in the direction of my brain. So I make a lot of mistakes, a lot of wrong bloody calls. "

Could go from being a souled vampire showing remorse for his past to a confession of cheating/hooking up with someone else.

and "You're the one, Buffy." isn't exactly true any more - course thats just based off the idea that Spike has a romantic relationship with this women, we'll have to see how that actually unfolds.
 
R
Robb Stark
Great post
and "You're the one, Buffy." isn't exactly true any more - course thats just based off the idea that Spike has a romantic relationship with this women, we'll have to see how that actually unfolds.
Well, that's the thing...we don't actually know yet if this is a true romance or if they had sex. It could be a simple case of attraction. God knows there are plenty of characters that Spike has an attraction or flirtation with! I don't know, I'm not a Spuffy but this isn't something that bothers me, just like the Bangel kiss doesn't bother me (in terms of either Angel just losing Cordy or Buffy's relationship with Spike at that moment). Riley's obvious affection for Buffy even in season 6 when he was married to another woman doesn't bother me either.

---------- Post added at 09:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:01 AM ----------

And while nothing in the comics may contradict the televised series, something in Season 8 does change what Joss designated as canon. The final battle against Twilight was supposed to be the last great battle that blasted all of the demons out of Buffy's dimension, taking Buffy and all of her friends with them (to the Twilight universe, I suppose) That was confirmed by Joss. Buffy and her allies winning that battle created an anomaly that should have cancelled out Fray's future. So, canon has been changed at least once, if only the comic book section of it.
Hmm, I came into season 8 late, so I wasn't privy into all the hapenings earlier on, but did Joss specifically say that? I mean, the final battle did change things and even though magic is back, we don't yet know how fundamentally things are altered. So I wouldn't quite agree that canon has changed. I think it's hard to predict how things will unfold & fit together in the future. That's different from introducing elements and story lines into the past. Although I'm not yet convinced that this story will alter anything.

SA: We sent him the script and he said we could do it, but he hasn't really contributed or chimed in specifically, so it won't bare his name as exec producer. I told him the story in a nutshell, I think he had heard it from James before, and he gave it his blessing, but that's the extent of it.
Interesting, and pretty much what I was thinking. I do kind of think it was a dumb move though, not tying it into season 10.
 
It sounds more like this comic should be placed immediately after "The Girl In Question" in Angel Season 5. Spike and Angel couldn't find Buffy, so he goes off and finds someone else. Since TGIQ is a standalone episode, there is no need to adjust timing in the canon - it simply occupies the indeterminate time between TGIQ and "Power Play" which is the penultimate Angel episode.

There is no place in Buffy Season 7 where this comic could realistically fit. But it does fit in Angel Season 5.
 
Black Eye Guy
Black Eye Guy
Very good point
brinkster130
brinkster130
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R
Robb Stark
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Gum Gnome33
Gum Gnome33
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EVIL UU
EVIL UU
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Hmm, I came into season 8 late, so I wasn't privy into all the hapenings earlier on, but did Joss specifically say that? I mean, the final battle did change things and even though magic is back, we don't yet know how fundamentally things are altered. So I wouldn't quite agree that canon has changed. I think it's hard to predict how things will unfold & fit together in the future. That's different from introducing elements and story lines into the past. Although I'm not yet convinced that this story will alter anything.
.

I have no memory of this either. Now, it is entirely possible I missed it but I stayed pretty glued to the goings of S8 (both behind the seasons and on the page) and the Twilight battle being the final battle spoken about in Fray. We (i.e. fandom) certainly speculated on that battle being "The Battle of Starbucks" but to my knowledge Joss never confirmed our speculation.
 
I also dont remember confirmation that the Twilight fight was the one we saw in Fray, is there a source for that?

I remember a lot of speculation but can't remember confirmation. Considering that they bothered to show us that the events of Fray still happened after "Time of your Life" I think there's more to see of that story.
 
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