Iraq

[Patran]

Like it or not, but war is sometimes neccessary. The American Civil War, and the Second World War are examples of conflicts where the end result was far better than if peace had remained. The American Civil War ensured the integrity of the US as a nation and led to the emancipation of the slaves, even if they weren't really free until the Civil Rights movement of the 60's. Do you think there would be any Jews, gipsies or homosexuals left alive in Europe, Africa or the Middle East if the British hadn't taken a stand against Hitler in 1939? Or just as bad, if the UK and US (and they very nearly did) had stayed out of WWII and let a monster like Stalin conquer Europe.

Saddam Hussein's regime is one of the most brutal in existence today. We all know the story of how he used nerve gas against the Kurds or how one of his relatives, Uday, rountinely tortures, rapes and murders without any hint of justice being done.

BUT... Bush and Blair are on very thin ice when it comes to invading. Iraq in my view has been far less threatening over the last few months than North Korea. Now that is a scary regime close to losing what little sanity it has left. And they definitely have missiles that could do huge damage. But N Korea is classified as "too difficult" due to it's huge standing army and complete disregard for how many people they would kill. Bush is following in his daddies footsteps and trying to complete unfinished business. And Blair? If he's not careful, he'll be out of a job pretty soon. He has to start listening to his own people and not to Bush. I'm tired of people over here in Nigeria calling me an slave to the Americans because I'm British.

 

[Allycat]

I'm sorry to say, but in WW2 there was allready a war, started by Hitler, the bad guy, so unless you want to be the bad guys, I suggest taht you do not start a war!

Iraq in my view has been far less threatening over the last few months than North Korea.

Indeed, why bother a diplomatic disaster, when there are more important situations to think about!

 

[catdog]

Well the march is over and the biggest turn out was in london where supposedly over a million turned up, kinda makes a point to me, maybe bush and blair will notice.

And thank you very much nerd for hire, we owe you, so do the million british men who died in the trenches for the entire first world war and the hundreds of thousands who died through out the entire 2nd world war. Im sure if they were alive now they would thank you. If there are any french people on you too should thank this person as he says he saved you. I hate it when a clueless person tries to enter a debate,Why dont you learn some history and not talk about things you dont understand.

 

[Diminished_9th]

What's up with you deciding who is and isn't knowledgable enough to join the debate? You didn't refute anything he said, you just got really sarcastic. (BTW, are you including the Jewish victims in that count of the dead?)

I know this is completely anecdotal, but I caught the end of an interview yesterday with an Iraqi man who fled Iraq. He said, to paraphrase, that in the 70s, if someone had gone to the Iraqi's and said "We're going to go to war to liberate you", he and others would have welcomed them. I know maybe not all Iraqis feel that way, but it seems like no one really stops to consider that maybe war would be worth it to these people. A period of hardship for a better future? Hmmm...

 

[Oz]

Just a note to all of you, please keep the disscussion on topic, and do not let it get personal.

If you wish to attack each other personally then take it to 'Private Messaging'

Thanks 🙂

 

[Allycat]

it seems like no one really stops to consider that maybe war would be worth it to these people.

Research tells us, that Iraqi rather have Saddam then the US.

Sorry!

 

[Diminished_9th]

What research?

 

[Allycat]

Some, scientific enquiry (sp?).

 

[catdog]

and when they had an election and 100% of the populatiopn voted for him, okay there is a 100% chance of some rigging but to fix it 100% would be quite difficult. (And i never said he couldnt get involved just say something constructive and with facts to back what he says up)

 

[Patran]

Originally posted by catdog
of some rigging

Some rigging????? Saddam was the only candidate and the electorate were "compelled" to turn out and vote for him. People tend to be "compelled" when either their life or the lives of their familiies are at risk. When at the voting stations, every single voter was watched to ensure they did not spoil their ballot paper.

"Some" rigging indeed!!!!

No matter how popular a leader, they will never, ever recieve 100% of the vote. Except in repressive, totalitarian regimes like Saddam's.

 

[Anya]

i think something has to be done but something else but war!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Diminished_9th]

Ok.

Like what?

 

[Anya]

I don't know but there must be something else to do other than war!!!!

 

[nerd4hire]

Interesting Poll, but I have a slight problem with it.

The question is too general and as a result it doesn't really tell us anything specific about how people are interpreting the facts.

I would like to see some other polls that asked questions like;

Do you believe the Iraqi's have weapons of mass destruction?

Do you believe the Iraqi's would be offering any kind of cooperation to Inspectors without American and British pressure?

Do you think a case ever exists where deadly force should be unilaterally decided upon as an alernative by the world community in order to enforce an outlaw state to obey world law?

At what point would the United States and a coalition be justified to attack Iraq.

a. Right now
b. When inspections prove innefective.
c. When a connection is proven between Irag and terrorists.
d. When Irag or an Iraqi backed terrorist organization actually attack a major city.
e. Never

 

[Allycat]

Go ahead and make them!

My opinion

1. not anymore, not in a state to be used any time soon
2. no
3. yes
4. b, c and d

 

[Soulgasm]

Research tells us, that Iraqi rather have Saddam then the US.

Sorry!

i thought allycat was sort of intelligent...but now his true intelligence is revealed...even when this dude acts smart...he's showing his ignorance....

the people marching and not getting crazy are dumb...they think bush will listen to them...it took a riot in most American cities to stop Vietnam... punk bitch marching without any anger will not work...cuz they're all run by professors and pussies...they need to get some anarchists like the marchers at the WTO...now those guys brought the rucous....

i mean...who the falk cares if Danny Glover and a few other actors are marching...falkin get naughts!!!

 

[Vail2002]

Did you hear about the march in London yesterday. 2 million people showed up to walk the streets of London to protest against war. On the front of The Mirror newspaper was a picture of Tony Blair and George W. Busk kissing. It said, MAKE LOVE, NOT WAR. It was funny actually. 2 million people is like a third of the British population. I don't know the in's and out's of it all but I don't want war because at the end of the day, what are the chances of actually getting Sadam Hussain. They will probably end up killing thousands of innocent people who have no relationship with Sadam or any terrorist groups. Everyone over here is saying that Tony Blair is too busy trying to follow Bush's idea's than actually listening to his country and what the people believe in. I hate the idea of war and anything to stop the UN going to war has my vote on it.

I have a question anyway, If we did go to war then would Iraq be able to get planes off the ground or will it actually be a Gulf War and all in their country?

I'm only 13 so don't yap on with the big words cause I'm off school on a holiday and I don't need my brain working to the full! Did everyone hear bout what the police found at Gatwick airport in the UK. They found a hand grenade in someone's luggage and they closed the whole North terminal down. MI5 - like the FBI, recon that someone's smuggled in ground to air missile thingy's. If they have then it could end up like a September 11th. Not with buildings collapsing but hundreds of people dying on planes.

NO WAR NO WAR NO WAR NO WAR NO WAR NO WAR NO WAR

 

[Allycat]

I have a question anyway, If we did go to war then would Iraq be able to get planes off the ground or will it actually be a Gulf War and all in their country?

Probably only there, or maybe in neighbouring countries, so no American civilian casualties, only innocent muslims dying ... not to worry!

Did you know these demonstrations were the biggest since Vietnam?

 

[catdog]

1.3 million in spain, 500,000 in australia etc etc so danny glover and a few others....? (2 million is not a 3rd of our population, 20mil is about a third.) And alleycat at leasts acts smart whereas you spout some utter nonsense. The war on iraq is a farce. People say we should learn from history and look what happened with hitler, but you also have to look at vietnam. America didnt have the backing from anyone, even the UK or its own people, and they ended up losing the war to an inferior enemy and thousands of people needlesy lost there lives. I have no doubt the war would be won but to depose ONE person from power at the cost of thousands maybe hundreds of thousands through disease and famine seems ludicrous to me. The facts needed are not being shown to us and those that are, are irrelevant or insufficent reason to launch a full scale war on a country weakend by UN sanctions.(When i said some rigging i was being sarcastic but theres no face for that so can we get one?.)

 

[Soulgasm]

And alleycat at leasts acts smart whereas you spout some utter nonsense....

thanks for backing me up dawg!!!...at least halfway....

utter non sense huh bub....you think Bush cares how many people are marching against war in Europe?? sure thousands are marching in the US...but the US is a far bigger country than France...almost 300 mil....who the falk cares if some pussies are marching???

and to think the crazy ass anarchists protesting had no effect...they disrupted numerous conferences and eventually made it moved to my back yard in Honolulu....yup...thats having no effect....