Question Is Angel In Love With Spike?

[thrasherpix]

"Ship psychology" are very strange, and I want to figure it out. I've noticed many repeating patterns, but I'm still baffled by a lot of it.

For those familiar with RWBY, there's even "Thorny Dragon" (Ruby Rose + Grimm Dragon) and Blue Eyes White Dragon (Weiss + Grimm Dragon), Zweiss (Weiss + cute puppy Zwei), plus one that makes Spuffy look sweet and sane in comparison, Ice Sculpting (Weiss x Banesaw, the latter mostly known for his rhetoric of hate, especially against the Schnees, and his only notable interaction with Weiss Schnee in the show was trying to cut her up with a chainsaw, surely a ship to make even Angelus cry at the haunting, painful beauty of such passionate love). Naturally, many incestuous ships are also present, as are romantic & sexual relations between teachers and students. And I'm not even surprised by it even more.

And some of the crazy stuff in Harry Potter fiction...like one in which Harry is half-veela, Draco falls madly in love with him with explicit sex acts that I was sure meant to troll fans, and Harry carrying his baby was one. I was surprised when like the thousand + reviews were mostly positive. I only caught a couple that were critical of it (I only skimmed part of the reviews), and they were over trivial details rather than the content of the story itself. So much for my belief that some shipping fics are merely to troll or amuse fans.

Also, you don't have to be gay to be into gay ships (especially not a man writing about lesbian ships, though I've notice plenty of straight women do like the gay male ships as well). It was ironic that when I decided to try to my hand at erotic fanfics, I was the lesbian putting out the relatively rare heterosexual ships while most of the straight men were writing lesbian ships (and I did throw in a lesbian ship or two fics just to make something seem a little more accurate of lesbian relationships, though one male author was brilliant--I say that from a storyteller perspective as opposed to the erotic aspects which he didn't touch a lot upon--but then he was not only a profesional author as well, but had a degree in psychology and years of experience as a counselor, including for traumatized women, so I'm sure he incorporated what he learned from all that).

I know plenty who ship Jalex (Justin and his sister Alex from Wizards of Waverly Place) and Elsanna (Elsa and her sister Anna from Frozen) who are actually icked out by sibling incest, but for some reason they like this (and btw, some who ship Elsanna claim to be straight women, interesting enough, and it seems most who ship Jalex are female). I'm presuming it's not too different from those into VC Andrews (popular books rife with romantic incest, and were popular for like 20 years), though after seeing the WOWP movie I wasn't surprised by Jalex (had they not been siblings then romance would've naturally followed), and also Elsanna (I can point out more than one reason why I intellectually knew Elsanna was going to be a big thing when I walked out of the movie).

I'm waiting for someone to do their thesis on the phenomenon as I think there are some complex psychological forces at work (in addition to the usual lusts), and I do mean to include myself on that, I'm not saying that all those into crack ships (or incestuous, etc) are deranged or necessarily into similar things themselves personally (I'm too baffled by many of them to make any definitive statements, even if I notice some patterns). In the meantime I'll just have to marvel at it, and enjoy songs like this:

 

[Priceless]

I'm not sure there is much love there, but there is definite sexual chemistry. We know they've slept together at least once. They seem to want to be close to each other physically, they're always touching which often seems like fighting, but violence and sex are very closely linked for vampires 🙂 The subtext is there, but I guess only if you're looking for it.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

Now Angel and Lindsay, that's a whole different matter.

I don't think this could have been a Wesley/Lilah thing, but there is something there. At least from Lindsey's side. "Vampire with a soul? Vampire with big ass testicles!"

 

[Fenrir]

The Judge says Angelus has no humanity at a time when he keeps on harping on about the love other vampires feel (Spike and Dru, that other one with his books (felt kinda sorry for that being burnt just cos he liked reading)) so I feel like he wasn't supposed to love anyone. I feel like he could have enjoyed the company of the others but he wouldn't love them and it'd mostly be an entertainment and safety net think. Angelus also really REALLY hated that possession thing with Buffy by the student and teacher. Spike would've probably appreciated the romantic side of it.

Intimate can mean a lot of things but even if it was a sexual encounter I doubt it meant much if anything to Angelus other than fun or dominance.

 

[Athena]

Whatever it is, we know it's complex. They have a history of love, hate, sex and everything in between. Like most things though, people read into what they personally want to read into. I wouldn't say Angel is in love with Spike, I'd say most of the time he tolerates him, but there has to be some positive emotional connection there, otherwise they would actively try to avoid each other more than they do.

 

[Bop]

I don't get the comparison of Angel/Spike to Faith/Buffy. I'm not particularly a shipper for either of those couples but at least Faith sometimes acted like she might love Buffy. The only time there's ever been a suggestion of Angel/Spke is if it's played as a joke which is not enough to make me believe.

 

[Taake]

I can understand having fantasy ships, but purposely creating sexual energy or stating that they are lovers just to fit that fantasy, is exactly the reason for Fan Fiction.

I think this is a little rude, "purposely creating sexual energy" "just to fit that fantasy" ... everyone sees these shows with different eyes. I mean, I don't think there's any real sexual chemistry between Buffy and Faith, others do. I also think Spike and Buffy have the most forced sexual energy on the show (excepting Cordelia and Angel on Ats) and that their ship was forced into canon in order to fit a fantasy. Many people disagree, fine, including the writers, fine... I still don't see chemistry/sexual energy. But just because you don't see chemistry or sexual energy doesn't mean there's nothing there in the eyes of others.

Fans take that one line where he says " that one time " of intimacy as some sort of definitive proof that Angel and Spike had sex. There is nothing that proves that, that moment could have meant anything.

In the words of Joss "they're open minded guys", that moment could've meant anything, sure, that's why there are some who interpret is as sexual. Not sure why one needs definitive proof.

Can't anything be platonic between characters or does everything have to be sexual??

A bit of a stretch. There's plenty of platonic "shipping" going on, people who just want characters to be friends, so not by a long shot does everything have to be sexual. It does however seem like this particular ship gets under peoples skin more so than others, not sure why.

 

[GraceK]

I think this is a little rude, "purposely creating sexual energy" "just to fit that fantasy" ... everyone sees these shows with different eyes. I mean, I don't think there's any real sexual chemistry between Buffy and Faith, others do. I also think Spike and Buffy have the most forced sexual energy on the show (excepting Cordelia and Angel on Ats) and that their ship was forced into canon in order to fit a fantasy. Many people disagree, fine, including the writers, fine... I still don't see chemistry/sexual energy. But just because you don't see chemistry or sexual energy doesn't mean there's nothing there in the eyes of others.



In the words of Joss "they're open minded guys", that moment could've meant anything, sure, that's why there are some who interpret is as sexual. Not sure why one needs definitive proof.



A bit of a stretch. There's plenty of platonic "shipping" going on, people who just want characters to be friends, so not by a long shot does everything have to be sexual. It does however seem like this particular ship gets under peoples skin more so than others, not sure why.

I apologize if it seemed rude, that certainly was not how I meant it.

I meant that it's one thing to see chemistry and ship a couple, because you personally see something there, it's another thing to make it fact.

I've heard "we know for a fact they were lovers!" And no, we don't. There is nothing in the narrative or in their interactions that suggest lovers. And the original question was Is Angel in love with Spike? And the answer is no. Would it be a great fan fiction if he was? Yes. Is there great Chemistry between them? Yes. But to take it as far as saying Angel is in love with Him is pure fanon.
 
Edit:: but to each their own!!! Your right , everyone sees things differently, that's the beauty of this forum and of a fan base. 🙂

 

[Anyanka Bunny Slayer]

I think that is just the competitive rivalry. I just don't see sexual tension but posturing and one upmanship.

They're like older and younger brothers. The elder believes he has far more experience (and should be deferred to) whilst the younger has something to prove.

I definitely believe they loved each other in a family sense.

 

[Carrie Hopewell]

Spangel is one of by biggest notps. It's an even biggers Notp than Spuffy, because it includes Angel.

Spike and Angel are toxic to one another and act like toddlers everytime they share a scene. They bring out the worst in one another. Regardless of the number of scenes in which David and James are forced to be within kissing distance of each other, I see no sexual chemistry between them, and no more chemistry than any other pair of characters shares. Angel/Wesley have more chemistry imo.

Also, Angelus and Spike knew each other briefly before Angelus got a soul, and Spike knew Angel so well that he could never tell that he was speaking to Angel and not Angelus... He didn't even understand Angel at all until he got a soul himself, and just because they both have souls, it doesn't mean they have some magical connection or that they know each other...

So no, Angel is not in love with Spike, nor will he ever be. Imo, he doesn't love Spike in any way. They do share a familial bond though, but there's no love between them.

 

[The Bronze]

Yes Angel is in love with Spike. That's why he kept trying to send him away in Season 5 because he was worried about achieving perfect happiness and losing his soul.

 

[Priceless]

I don't get the comparison of Angel/Spike to Faith/Buffy. I'm not particularly a shipper for either of those couples but at least Faith sometimes acted like she might love Buffy. The only time there's ever been a suggestion of Angel/Spke is if it's played as a joke which is not enough to make me believe.

When did Faith show love towards Buffy? I honestly cannot remember. Are you thinking of Season 7?

 

[sosa lola]

I think this is a little rude, "purposely creating sexual energy" "just to fit that fantasy" ... everyone sees these shows with different eyes. I mean, I don't think there's any real sexual chemistry between Buffy and Faith, others do. I also think Spike and Buffy have the most forced sexual energy on the show (excepting Cordelia and Angel on Ats) and that their ship was forced into canon in order to fit a fantasy. Many people disagree, fine, including the writers, fine... I still don't see chemistry/sexual energy. But just because you don't see chemistry or sexual energy doesn't mean there's nothing there in the eyes of others.

I agree. Chemistry is extremely subjective and a weak argument to defend one's opinion.

 

[Bop]

When did Faith show love towards Buffy? I honestly cannot remember. Are you thinking of Season 7?

Not love towards her maybe but things like the Mayor saying that she always wanted Buffy to love her, she says a lot of sexual things to Buffy too like "Let's have another go at it. See who lands on top." The point is that implications about Fuffy in the show aren't played as jokes, unlike with Spangel.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Not love towards her maybe but things like the Mayor saying that she always wanted Buffy to love her, she says a lot of sexual things to Buffy too like "Let's have another go at it. See who lands on top." The point is that implications about Fuffy in the show aren't played as jokes, unlike with Spangel.

I think Fuffy would've been a lot more text than subtext (at least on Faith's side) if the show had been allowed to portray LGBT more openly on tv at the time. Even with Willow/Tara, the show's first openly gay couple, their romantic interactions had to be implied rather than shown until season 5.

 

[Bop]

I think Fuffy would've been a lot more text than subtext (at least on Faith's side) if the show had been allowed to portray LGBT more openly on tv at the time. Even with Willow/Tara, the show's first openly gay couple, their romantic interactions had to be implied rather than shown until season 5.

Exactly they could never have risked making Buffy gay because she's the show's main character and it would have been too controversial.

 

[thrasherpix]

^^

True enough. While this is the first Buffy board I've ever been on, I did bang around the IMDB forums for awhile as I was watching the series for the first time, and there was a big deal over Buffy having a one night stand with Satsu in the comics which was beyond the pale for them. Willow was okay because she was the sidekick, but the main character/primary hero had to "be better than that." 'Course having sex with vampires and lying to your friends about it was acceptable behavior in the eyes of many of those people, go figure. 🙄

 

[DeadlyDuo]

^^

True enough. While this is the first Buffy board I've ever been on, I did bang around the IMDB forums for awhile as I was watching the series for the first time, and there was a big deal over Buffy having a one night stand with Satsu in the comics which was beyond the pale for them. Willow was okay because she was the sidekick, but the main character/primary hero had to "be better than that." 'Course having sex with vampires and lying to your friends about it was acceptable behavior in the eyes of many of those people, go figure. 🙄

I wonder if they would've had something happen between Buffy and Faith if Buffy was on television today. We are talking 20 years later.

 

[thrasherpix]

I wonder if they would've had something happen between Buffy and Faith if Buffy was on television today. We are talking 20 years later.

About 10 years or so ago for me (and when this was a topic), but other than that I don't know.

 

[GraceK]

I wonder if they would've had something happen between Buffy and Faith if Buffy was on television today. We are talking 20 years later.

I think so. I also think Willow would been openly Bisexual as well. Television today is a whole different story.