Is anyone justified to accuse Angel or Spike?

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RogueDemonHunter

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My thinking is that Angel and SPike can not be blamed for their actions when they had no soul. Often times they are hard on themselves and people dont forgive them, but they had no control. What is everyone elses thinking?
 
I guess theoretically neither of them can be blamed for their actions. However, I think Spike can be blamed for his actions more than Angel. With Angel it's much more like Angel and Angelus are two different entities, but Spike is just Spike whether he has a soul or not.

Plus, apart from killing Jenny, the worst thing Angelus did was kill a goldfish.... 😉

I don't think they should have forgiveness until they prove they deserve it though. Just because someone has a soul does not mean that they are good people.

I'm sure I;m making no sense. I shouldnt be on here at 3am x]
 
RogueDemonHunter said:
My thinking is that Angel and SPike can not be blamed for their actions when they had no soul. Often times they are hard on themselves and people dont forgive them, but they had no control. What is everyone elses thinking?
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My thinking on the matter is that as long as the same standard is used in judging both vampires, I have no problems whatsoever. But if Angel isn't held directly responsible for what Angelus did, then Spike should be given the benefit of the same clean slate after obtaining his own soul. If, however, the events in "Seeing Red" are going to be blamed on ensouled Spike, then Angel should be held responsible for the murder of Jenny Calendar.

No double standards, excuses, or get out of jail free cards for either vampire.
 
ashleigh said:
I guess theoretically neither of them can be blamed for their actions. However, I think Spike can be blamed for his actions more than Angel. With Angel it's much more like Angel and Angelus are two different entities, but Spike is just Spike whether he has a soul or not.

Plus, apart from killing Jenny, the worst thing Angelus did was kill a goldfish.... 😉

I don't think they should have forgiveness until they prove they deserve it though. Just because someone has a soul does not mean that they are good people.

I'm sure I;m making no sense. I shouldnt be on here at 3am x]
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I can see why you could see Spike with a soul as having more similarities than non- souled Spike, but for the majority of the time on the show he had a chip in his head, preventign him from hurting people. Also, one might associate them closely together because for seasons 2-6 he had no soul, and that is how we had come to know Spike. But in Angels case, we came to know him as having a soul. Also, if you remember Spike's trigger in season 7 of Buffy, it shows his true non ensouled self from back in the day before the chip and the soul.
 
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strawberryeve
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No, they shouldn't be held responsible for what they did. Well, not to such an extreme extent.

Joss really didn't have a choice with Spike. He couldn't just change Spike's personality or the fans would revolt. He did a crappy job with Spike in season 7, but oddly enough he actually dealt with the ramifications of having a soul in Angel season 5.
 
I can understand while people would blame then, it woould be hard to separate negative feelings against a creature who did something so horrible when they are physically the same... however for me I never truely understood Angels neverending guilt when he knew the intracies of soul/no soul... for me spikes reaction was much more realistic... he knew he'd done bad as a souless vampire, but he didn't wallow in it, he just accepted it as part of his past and tried to move on... suppose that may just be down to different personalities though, some people wallow and some get up and go on no matter what happens.
 
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