Is Buffy a good friend?

[cryptwarmer]

Buffy had a strong support team of friends, was Buffy a good friend back to them?

 

[vellavu]

She is. In "The Freshmen" she tried to separate the slaying from her friends in order not to disturb them. To do that she was seriously beaten and nearly killed.

It's much more touching than saving her friends in battles. The latter can be understood as a warlord saving her minions, but the former is genuine friendship.

 

[Buffy Summers]

Yes, because she forgives them when they screw up, and when they don't give her the benefit of the doubt. She puts them before herself.

 

[gite63]

Yes, because she forgives them when they screw up, and when they don't give her the benefit of the doubt. She puts them before herself.

And she didn't tell her friends that they had pulled her out of Heaven, to not upset them.

 

[ChaseRules]

And she put herself in danger to keep them safe without saying anything but still doing it just because they her friends .

 

[Iwearthecheese]

I don't think she is a good friend at all.
Leaving behind the fact that she was really only friends with Willow to start with because she wanted to be friends with somebody smart (so she could stay in school) and also have a normal life away from slaying. That's what her freinds were to her to begin with.
(as opposed to someone liked Faith who loved the slaying but also liked Xander and Willow for themselves).

I think in S3 their the closest in terms of friendship, even when she was keeping Angel a secret from them all.
In college they drift apart very easily once Buffy finds a cute boy to focus on and it gets worse in later seasons as she constantly keeps secrets and pulls away from them all because of her 'slayerness'.


Then there's Tara and Anya- she wasn't really friendly to them for ages, and even then only Tara when Tara was nice to her. Buffy never tried to accept Anya. Contrast that with the way Wilow and Xander welcomed Riley (and how at least Willow accepted Angel fairly unquestioningly)
Nor was Buffy really close to Faith despite Faith really trying to be friendly and help her. Buffy couldn't care less.

I think S7 was the final straw. The superiority complex, the lack of trust for Xander and Willow despite everything they'd done for her. Everyone else had seemed to have grown but Buffy was the same she'd always been.

 

[Kana]

I don't think she is a good friend at all.
Leaving behind the fact that she was really only friends with Willow to start with because she wanted to be friends with somebody smart (so she could stay in school) and also have a normal life away from slaying. That's what her freinds were to her to begin with.

I don't think that's entirely fair. This may have been the reason at first, but doesn't mean that Buffy didn't genuinely care about Willow. It's hard to be friends with someone based soley on who they when you don't know them.

(as opposed to someone liked Faith who loved the slaying but also liked Xander and Willow for themselves).

And also threatened to kill both of them!

I think in S3 their the closest in terms of friendship, even when she was keeping Angel a secret from them all.

I don't think screwing up makes someone a bad friend, it just makes them human. Buffy did what she did out of fear. She thought the gang wouldn't understand that Angel was 'cured' but yes her actions were reckless.

In college they drift apart very easily once Buffy finds a cute boy to focus on and it gets worse in later seasons as she constantly keeps secrets and pulls away from them all because of her 'slayerness'.

To be honest they all drifted apart for various reasons. This can happen when friends lives take different directions. That wasn't all on Buffy.

Then there's Tara and Anya- she wasn't really friendly to them for ages, and even then only Tara when Tara was nice to her.

Willow kept Tara from the Scoobies for while though and when she was intergrated finally, it wasn't only Buffy who didn't really "get her". Xander expressed a similar sentiment. Even when Tara put them in danger, Buffy was one of the first to stick up for her agaisnt her family.

Buffy never tried to accept Anya.

1) It wasn't just Buffy, Willow and Giles had issues with Anya as well and...
2) Anya's literal mindedness and lack of tact, made her difficult to get a long with. That's not all on Buffy.

Contrast that with the way Wilow and Xander welcomed Riley

Riley was more polite than Anya and more outgoing and engaging than Tara.

(and how at least Willow accepted Angel fairly unquestioningly)

When Angel was first introduced, it's not like Buffy kept him away from the Scoobies.

Nor was Buffy really close to Faith despite Faith really trying to be friendly and help her. Buffy couldn't care less.

I kind of agree. I think Buffy had only child syndrome and didn't like Faith muscling in. However Buffy did try with her at the end of Revelations and it wasn't just Buffy who didn't try as hard with Faith.

I think S7 was the final straw. The superiority complex, the lack of trust for Xander and Willow despite everything they'd done for her. Everyone else had seemed to have grown but Buffy was the same she'd always been.

Season 7 Buffy is an essay in itself, but yes, she wasn't pleasant then at all.

 

[thetopher]

Given the fact that she was the slayer I think Buffy was a remarkably good freind.
Yeah she was a bit self-absorbed sometimes but she put herself out there for Willow and Xander lots of times.
She was there for Willow when Oz left. And she was sympathetic to Xander after he broke up wih both Cordelia and Anya (which were both pretty much his fault).

 

[ChaseRules]

Also Buffy was ok with Tara even thought Willow had been keeping her away from the rest of them & she stood up for Tara
when her family came calling don't forgot.

 

[sosa lola]

Buffy was a wonderful friend. She was supportive and incredibly forgiving. I understand being self-absorbed sometimes when it seems like everything is about you.

 

[cryptwarmer]

Buffy was a wonderful friend. She was supportive and incredibly forgiving. I understand being self-absorbed sometimes when it seems like everything is about you.

I don't think she was self absorbed as much as mission absorbed, and the Scoobies signed on for that, meaning they knew from the start that was the gig. Anya and Tara were drawn in and I guess if it was that big a deal to them they could have either given their partner a choice...them of the mission...or simply left.

It's really hard for me to decide if Buffy was a good friend on a personal level. I don't know how much she could afford to be given that her mission ALWAYS had to be the priority. She wasn't a bad friend, but I see a bit of Riley's point meaning that he felt that what she gave on a personal level was never enough. She was doing all she could, but there was a limit when it came to personal relationships, and that wasn't enough for him.

Her friends are SO tied up in the mission that again, it's hard for me to tease apart if she was forgiving them mostly on a personal level, ,or because it was part of the mission to get over it and get on with things.

I believe she deeply loved them for their own selves, no doubt about it, but...a person can love you from a distance and even make sacrifices for your well being, but not be much a friend because they are unavailable to you. You can't come to them for the things you would come to for a friend.

She wasn't there for Willow when Willow really needed her to be after Oz left. She had to go get Spike back, from her mother's perspective she wasn't a good daughter because she put the mission ahead of school, ahead of following her mother's rules etc (that got better over time when Joyce got fully on board). Dawn felt Buffy never spent enough time with her even though Buffy sacrificed her life for her.

Maybe it all depends on the definition of friend. I think the more time went by, the more isolated and unavailable she became. A person only has so much time, energy, emotional and brain space after all, and she was always required to do harder and harder things.

Unless you were completely wrapped up in the Scooby mission, I think it was impossible to be friends with Buffy at all. Again, not blaming Buffy for any of this or calling her a bad friend. I just don't know if she can be considered a good friend.

 

[Iwearthecheese]

I don't think that's entirely fair. This may have been the reason at first, but doesn't mean that Buffy didn't genuinely care about Willow.

Unfortunately its present throughout the series- as confirmed in S7. Buffy thinks that, deep down- she is better than her friends. It's evident in the way she treats them.

And also threatened to kill both of them!

Yep, but they weren't her friends at the time, Faith didn't have any friends, to her they were simply 'Buffy's friends' (and she was right).
What she tried to do was utterly wrong and awful but it still doesn't change the fact that Faith doesn't take what she has for granted, because she has nothing.

Oh, and Buffy has put her friends lives in danger in 'When She Was Bad' and tried to kill them in 'Normal Again'. Sure she was under the influence of a demon drug but she chose not to take the cure, so she's culpable to a degree.
So its only Buffy who tries to murder her own friends.

I don't think screwing up makes someone a bad friend, it just makes them human.

It does make her a bad friend if its part of a pattern. There's a mountain of evidence that Buffy doesn't respect the opinions of her friends so she keeps secrets from them. From S3 onwards in fact.

To be honest they all drifted apart for various reasons. This can happen when friends lives take different directions. That wasn't all on Buffy.

That was Willow going through something huge with her sexuality- hardly comparable.
What were Giles and Xander doing that made them drift from Buffy? Nothing, there were just 'not in college' and therefore not important to her.

Even when Tara put them in danger, Buffy was one of the first to stick up for her agaisnt her family.

I always saw that as Buffy defending somebody who couldn't defend themselves and who also happened to be Willow's girlfriend. It's admirable of course but not evidence of Buffy liking Tara.
It's not like they were noticable closer after that episode. Tara had earlier helped Buffy move off campus, and they don't really interact with each other again until 'Triangle'

1) It wasn't just Buffy, Willow and Giles had issues with Anya as well and...

But Willow and Giles were well over their amnosity towards Anya by mid- S5. Despite being made a bridemaid at her wedding Buffy's contempt for Anya is evident as far on as S7 'Get It Done'.
Also see Buffy being the only one who wants to kill Anya in 'Selfless'. Xander wants to do 'something else' (kinda vague) the only person who does something constructive is Willow.

Riley was more polite than Anya and more outgoing and engaging than Tara.

So are you saying it was easier for the Scoobies to accept Riley because of who he was?
I'm not sure why that should matter- your friends date who they date. Anya was very outgoing and always around Xander (easier to make the effort in getting to know her) and Tara was nicer than Riley- both of them have good qualities and yet Buffy is always slower to accept her friends relationship choices.
Apart from Oz, because Oz is great. 🙂

When Angel was first introduced, it's not like Buffy kept him away from the Scoobies.

Still in S2 and 3 Willow is a big supported of Buffy dating a vampire because Buffy likes Angel. It's as simple as that for her.
With Xander its a bit more complicated- he's jealous- but up until Angel turning evil he's accepted Angel as Buffy's boyfriend. He even manges to do it again by mid-S3 despite the murderous rampage of the previous year.

I kind of agree. I think Buffy had only child syndrome and didn't like Faith muscling in. However Buffy did try with her at the end of Revelations and it wasn't just Buffy who didn't try as hard with Faith.

Did she really try though? I remember Buffy Faith that she didn't have a choice but she clearly did (to quote S2 Buffy- you always have a choice). She doesn't really apologise to anyone- not Giles or Willow (who were both affected by Angelus' rampage). She really just makes a couple of excuses to Faith, leaves her in the motel room and then the next episode she's happily musing about leaving Sunnydale behind now that there's a spare slayer around.
The thing about 'Revelations' is that Buffy isn't sorry that she did what she did, she's just sorry that got caught.

 

[ChaseRules]

I don't think she was self absorbed as much as mission absorbed, and the Scoobies signed on for that, meaning they knew from the start that was the gig. Anya and Tara were drawn in and I guess if it was that big a deal to them they could have either given their partner a choice...them of the mission...or simply left .

I think we have to look at the big picture here. Buffy has a very high stressful job which she can't quit from.
Spike said that most Slayers die fast because they have a death wish &she a teenager to boot. Also the Council frowned on Buffy having friends or a social life don't forget. I think the reason she lasted all those years was because of those friends & she cared for them . She did what she could for them & l think that she did a good job conserving what she had to put up with.

 

[RomanticSoul]

So its only Buffy who tries to murder her own friends.

Unlike Xander in OMWF and Dark Willow you mean?

Still in S2 and 3 Willow is a big supported of Buffy dating a vampire because Buffy likes Angel. It's as simple as that for her.
With Xander its a bit more complicated- he's jealous- but up until Angel turning evil he's accepted Angel as Buffy's boyfriend. He even manges to do it again by mid-S3 despite the murderous rampage of the previous year.

Xander has never accepted Angel. He may be affected sometimes by the Christmas spirit but that's as far as it goes. Even at the end of S4 as he says to Riley that he doesn't hate Angel, just his guts. The barbs were still coming in strong in early S2.

She doesn't really apologise to anyone- not Giles or Willow (who were both affected by Angelus' rampage).

You mean aside from the end of Passion at Jenny's grave? Or when Willow was staying at Buffy's and she apologized for her fish getting killed?

She really just makes a couple of excuses to Faith, leaves her in the motel room and then the next episode she's happily musing about leaving Sunnydale behind now that there's a spare slayer around. The thing about 'Revelations' is that Buffy isn't sorry that she did what she did, she's just sorry that got caught.

Why is it just on Buffy that Faith get included in stuff? Giles was the one who messed up the most through the Season in the Faith situation. Why didn't he include her in the meeting in the library in Revelations? He called on everyone else.


It's for me a simple clash of different psychology. Now these terms aren't really supposed to be used anymore but for my purpose they will do. Willow and Xander (and Faith for different reasons) are both extroverts. Due to their crappy home life (Willow had to raise herself, Xander abusive parents) they found each other and finally had soemone to share everything with. And share they do. Buffy is an introvert. She liked to work out her problems with herself and inside herself. She was never share!girl, even before she came to Sunnydale. Which is why Buffy was far less judgemental about Xander's and Willow's romantic choices than they were of hers, specially Xander. Because she is wired differently than they are.

 

[ChaseRules]

I agree with you . Buffy spent a lot of time by herself ever night fighting . That reinforced her being a introvert as you said.

 

[Iwearthecheese]

Unlike Xander in OMWF and Dark Willow you mean?

I was talking about between the two slayers which has tried to kill the closest to them. 🙂

But okay, Xander apparently summoned Sweets- that was bad but there wasn't any malice- as in 'I'm trying to kill you' with his actions. H e was thoughtless and there should've been more serious consequences.

Willow at least has the decency to feel really horrible about what she did, reform herself, self-flagilate with the best of them and tries her best to avoid similar situations of abusing dark magics. She's very different in S7 than she was in S6.

Buffy is okay with what she tried to do the very next episode- see S6 Entrophy.

Xander has never accepted Angel.

I disagree. He may not have liked him but he accepted him and was even willing to work with him or help save him (Lie To Me, What's My Line, Amends, Graduation day pt 2). Therer many none-Christmas spirit related examples.

Buffy's hatred of Anya never ever goes away even as recent as S7, that's a far longer standing grudge than Xander has for Angel (Seasons 4, 5, 6, and 7 as opposed to 1, 2 and 3).

You mean aside from the end of Passion at Jenny's grave?

I was clearly refering to 'Revelations' and Season 3.

Why is it just on Buffy that Faith get included in stuff?

Because that's what @Kana and I were talking about. 😛

Willow and Xander (and Faith for different reasons) are both extroverts. Due to their crappy home life (Willow had to raise herself, Xander abusive parents) they found each other and finally had soemone to share everything with. And share they do. Buffy is an introvert.

So Willow the shy, nerdy girl is an extrovert and Buffy the popular valley girl is an introvert? That's a new one I have to say. 🙂

A better explanation is that Willow is shy and insecure and so she generally tries harder and puts more into her friendships (Xander and Buffy). Buffy is more self-absorbed (both because of who she is and her slayer gig) and so acts the way she does.

Which is why Buffy was far less judgemental about Xander's and Willow's romantic choices than they were of hers, specially Xander.

Might have something to do with the fact that Buffy's boyfriends tend to- at some point or other- kill people, the Scoobies in particular, or destroy the world. Willow and Xander both had zero problem with Scott Hope, Parker, Riley etc, in fact they tend to encourage Buff to be happy and date who she wants- demons not-withstanding.

 

[Kana]

Unfortunately its present throughout the series- as confirmed in S7. Buffy thinks that, deep down- she is better than her friends. It's evident in the way she treats them.

Like I said, I don't think having flaws makes you a bad person. I agree, that she had a superiority complex but many of our flaws can affect our friendship. Should this negate her positive traits.

Yep, but they weren't her friends at the time, Faith didn't have any friends, to her they were simply 'Buffy's friends' (and she was right).
What she tried to do was utterly wrong and awful but it still doesn't change the fact that Faith doesn't take what she has for granted, because she has nothing.

Again, sometimes many of us are guilty for taking what we have for granted, but should we ignore all the times Buffy has risked her life for those she cares about?

Oh, and Buffy has put her friends lives in danger in 'When She Was Bad' and tried to kill them in 'Normal Again'. Sure she was under the influence of a demon drug but she chose not to take the cure, so she's culpable to a degree.
So its only Buffy who tries to murder her own friends.

Again, this comes under the heading of "Buffy sometimes f***s up". I don't think that should cancel out all the times, she's been a good friend.

It does make her a bad friend if its part of a pattern. There's a mountain of evidence that Buffy doesn't respect the opinions of her friends so she keeps secrets from them. From S3 onwards in fact.

Yes, but everyone has specific faults that affect their relationships. Wesley had a Utilitarian philosophy for better or worse. Xander was sometimes judgemental. Angel made decisions without consulting people. That doesn't mean they were bad friends overall, it just means their specific faults affect their relationship in the way that they did. Again, this still ignores all the good that Buffy has done for her friends.

That was Willow going through something huge with her sexuality- hardly comparable.

That's no more an excuse than anything else. Many people go through that and still manage to stay close to their friends.

What were Giles and Xander doing that made them drift from Buffy?

Xander was floundering while his friends were going off to University, this causes a rift. Giles was no longer a Watcher or a librarian. He was simply an older gentleman hanging around a bunch of teenagers. Giles wondered about his own relevance.

Nothing, there were just 'not in college' and therefore not important to her.

That wasn't a conscious act on Buffy's part and it wasn't just Buffy. All of them had their issues and that's what Spike picked up on in Yoko Factor.

I always saw that as Buffy defending somebody who couldn't defend themselves and who also happened to be Willow's girlfriend. It's admirable of course but not evidence of Buffy liking Tara.

That's irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. In fact, if Buffy is willing to defend someone she hardly knows, that would make her excellent friend and she wouldn't have been in such a proximity with Tara to defend her, if she wasn't Willow's girlfriend.

It's not like they were noticable closer after that episode. Tara had earlier helped Buffy move off campus, and they don't really interact with each other again until 'Triangle'

Was that all down to Buffy?

But Willow and Giles were well over their amnosity towards Anya by mid- S5. Despite being made a bridemaid at her wedding Buffy's contempt for Anya is evident as far on as S7 'Get It Done'.

Was Buffy particularly acrimonious towards Anya in the interim? And Buffy was acting the way she was because, well, Season 7Buffy and possibly because of Anya's recent behaviour.

Also see Buffy being the only one who wants to kill Anya in 'Selfless'.

Again, Season7Buffy, but she did consider it her duty to stop Anya and Anya gave as good as she got.

So are you saying it was easier for the Scoobies to accept Riley because of who he was?
I'm not sure why that should matter- your friends date who they date.

Yes, but people do have different personalities. It's difficult interact with everyone in the same way.

Anya was very outgoing and always around Xander (easier to make the effort in getting to know her) and Tara was nicer than Riley- both of them have good qualities and yet Buffy is always slower to accept her friends relationship choices.

What I mean is that Riley was outgoing (unlike Tara) and was somewhat polite, (unlike Anya) making him easier to be integrated in the group. I agree that Tara is nicer, but it takes more than that to be integrated into a group. Xander and Buffy admitted that he didn't really get Tara, so that implies that it wasn't simply all on Buffy.

Apart from Oz, because Oz is great.

Oz is considered more or less cool 🙂.

Still in S2 and 3 Willow is a big supported of Buffy dating a vampire because Buffy likes Angel. It's as simple as that for her.

And Buffy didn't accept Willow's romantic partners? The worst you can accuse Buffy of is being surprised but then that's normal if someone finds out their best friend is gay when they thought they were straight but again, Giles and Xander also expressed an element of shock if you remember. Again, in Family, every had an element of awkwardness around Tara.

With Xander its a bit more complicated- he's jealous- but up until Angel turning evil he's accepted Angel as Buffy's boyfriend. He even manges to do it again by mid-S3 despite the murderous rampage of the previous year.

Xander's main issues with Angel do seem vindicated when he goes on a killing spree in Season 2, but then Buffy's argument may have merit in Selfless in that while Buffy hoped that Angel could be saved, it's arguable that Angel didn't make a choice in becoming an murderous demon, both times, but Anya did!

Did she really try though?

Faith's integration wasn't all on Buffy and also part of the issues with Faith and Buffy, could have been jealousy and bravado on Faith's side. Overall, I think you're being an little unfair on Buffy.

I remember Buffy Faith that she didn't have a choice but she clearly did (to quote S2 Buffy- you always have a choice). She doesn't really apologise to anyone- not Giles or Willow (who were both affected by Angelus' rampage). She really just makes a couple of excuses to Faith, leaves her in the motel room and then the next episode she's happily musing about leaving Sunnydale behind now that there's a spare slayer around.
The thing about 'Revelations' is that Buffy isn't sorry that she did what she did, she's just sorry that got caught.

Again, if it's just about listing Buffy's f*** ups then I can't help you. Buffy felt at the time that the gang wouldn't understand why she was doing what she did. I could list plenty of times the Scoobies were unfair to one another, but I would never say that negates the good they've done overall.

 

[Mr Trick]

I think so yes. Her and Willow make credible best friends, and are supportive of each other in different ways. There are times when Buffy unfairly overlooks Willow, but then considering the amount of time she must put into her slayer duties then I think she does okay on both fronts.

 

[HowiMetdaSlayer]

In my opinion - all of the Scoobies were really good friends to each other at times and not so much at other times. Friends some times drift apart, especially in/after high school or college. Such is life.