Is Buffy whiny?

Kean said:
That's a claim that could be laid at the door of each Scooby by season 7.
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Of course it could (although she totally wins on the arrogance front). But that doesn't make it any less true when it comes or Buffy. It also doesn't justify her behaviour saying 'well every one else was like that so why not'. But personally, I think every other Scooby would have stood up and admitted much more easily than she did/would.
 
I really don't think Buffy was whinny in the "I hate you like I hate Dawn" way. She's the chosen one. She gets the frack beat out of her everyday. She has to deal with apocalypse's and what not. However I do agree with the whole Sanctuary thing. Just plain wrong if you ask me. Is she whiny? Yes. but not to the point where you want to kill yourself over it. She never had the chance to live out her teenage years in high school like a normal person so i think she has every right to be a bit whinny.
 
According to Parker she is. And clingy. But you know, I haven't slept with her so maybe I don't know if she's whiny and clingy. Have you?
 
Chosen Enemy said:
According to Parker she is. And clingy. But you know, I haven't slept with her so maybe I don't know if she's whiny and clingy. Have you?
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Clingy i might agree with a bit. In later seasons at least. It's hard for me to explain so I won't even try. And no I haven't slept with her, but you know....if it means she will get whinny and clingy, guess I'll take one for the team 😉
 
VisionGirl
VisionGirl
And a LOL for you too!
In the early seasons, I liked Buffy but yeah, I found her kind of whiny. I'm not saying she didn't have a good reason to moan - that's not my point. I find that with any character, there's a sort of angst threshold. There's a point in which the angst of a character just becomes too much and too frequent - where justification becomes irrelevant because the mere presence of angst becomes irritating, even if it is justified. Personally, I felt that Buffy teetered close to this threshold - not always over it of course - but close. Every episode seemed to find Buffy something to angst about - it's not that whatever it was wasn't worth angsting about, it's just that it would've been nice to, now and again, see her not angsting.

But I'm with Flannen. When it comes to late-season Buffy, there are many things I find irritating and "whiny" is way down the list. Buffy's whininess is, for me, a minor issue. It was something I found annoying about her in the early seasons, but I quite liked her in the early seasons.

Kean said:
That's a claim that could be laid at the door of each Scooby by season 7.
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Oh come on, none of the Scoobies had enough time onscreen to be self-righteous and arrogant in season 7. 😉
 
Saw this linked on Whedonesque this morning.

Buffy is so whiny.

Except, anyone who has spent five minutes speaking to me knows that I don't really think that at all.

And yet, I find that is a really popular opinion, and it begs the question, why that is?

Because I just don't see the fly in the ointment logic, at least not in the sense by which people are trying to sell it to me.

Sure, I have had my fair share of "SHUT UP BUFFY" moments (*coughs* Angel Season 01 "Sanctuary" *coughs*), but I think that most of us could use a nice resounding STFU when we are behaving badly every now and again by our friends. But usually, this whole "Buffy is whiny" nonsense comes with a whole mess of evidence that would get Batman a hug and another comic book spin off. (What? Your parents were gunned down in an alley? I bet that really hurt and gave you a lot of emotional stuff to work through!)(But NOOOO! Buffy! You can't be upset about YOUR MOM DYING!) (Or YOU DYING!)

During our recent Summer of Buffy re watch, we got to round-about Season Five, where people tend to start thinking that Buffy "just isn't growing as a person" or that she "isn't written well anymore". I hear that is where the writing took a crap (I beg to differ), and that it must be because Joss was just stretched too thin with too many shows on his plate (once again, differ). I've also heard that it was because he let too many chicks to too much of the writing, but it didn't seem to be any more than usual. In fact, any changes that were made seemed to be things I found favorable. We had the introduction of Glory, my favorite Big Bad of the series. We had Season 2 of Angel working hard, spinning into the deep dark recesses of Angel's history with Darla. We saw the introduction of Jane Espenson to the mix. Production-wise, life was great! (Except that it was ALL MARTI'S FAULT!)

Buffy has been doing the dance for five years. She has been taking the strides and getting about as many kicks as she has given in the game of Life as thanks for carrying on her Duty as Chosen One. She got nice big death traps for her 16th and 18th birthdays, when most girls her age and demographic were going through regular milestones like tampons and Prom dates. She carried the lives of most of her graduating class through to adulthood and was thanked with a nifty toy surprise.

She was tricked and bossed around by a Watchers' Council out of touch with the job she stuck her neck out for every day and yet whom expected her to continue putting herself and her family at risk to continue doing.

In Buffy's world, life was starting to come apart at the seams. Buffy finds that she suddenly has an adolescent sister, and as added fun, that sister is a mystical key given to her to care for. That key is coveted and hunted by a timeless and greatly worshiped goddess hell-bent on using it to open a portal to a world that will suck this one into oblivion, killing her unknowing sister in the process.

Buffy's mother also becomes ill, getting incredible headaches, and it turns out she has a brain tumor. Buffy moves home to care for her and her sister. Suddenly, she is thrown into the adult situation of answering medical questions, and insurance questions and making sure that Dawn is fed and tucked in. And also not scared that their mother is dying. Like the adult that she isn't sure she is ready to be.

And then their mother does die.

Suddenly Buffy is the mother-figure. And the Slayer. And still protecting Dawn because the world just doesn't stop trying to find your kid sister who is a mystical key just because you are grieving the loss of your mother while carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders. Even her dad is in Spain with his secretary.

So who do you turn to if you are Buffy?

Your Watcher? Who just opened his magic shop?

Your boyfriend, who has become an emotional black hole after losing his superpowers? He can't deal with your brick wall of needing to be strong for everyone else, so he becomes a risk addict, seeing out blood-sucking vampires for fun while you are mopping up your mother's vomit. He never got over his jealousy of your vampy ex-boyfriend, so since he can't use his words and talk about he feels, he has to be sucked on or give ultimatums. It's now, or deep-undercover military ops.

Your friends, who are also caught up in worry about your mother, and helping you take care of your sister so you can care for your mom? Nice Guy Xander who is there to tell Buffy what she wants and badger her about every bad decision she has ever made ("¦you're about to let him go because you don't like ultimatums"¦)?

It seems to me, that if we had someone, say Spiderman, Batman, Wolverine"¦who started going through the same thing, they would have legitimate pain. Their need to always be on top of things, their need to stay strong is admirable, and when they crumble under the agony of emotional pain"¦ well it is understood as the regular pain of being a misunderstood superhero.

But this girl?

She's whiny.

She literally gives her life to protect the people she loves (twice); she trades hers for Dawn's. Her friends pull her back from the dead, from a place where she was at peace after all the fighting.

But she's whiny.

Being alive hurts her, and her friends give her shit about it, wanting her to bounce right back to happy-go-lucky life. A life where she has to take up the fight again instead of letting someone else do it. A life where the crushing world of responsibility comes crashing down on her again.

But she's whiny.

She has to back-burner college and get a crappy minimum-wage job to take care of her sister and home, while Dawn rebels by shop-lifting, and all the while everyone is watching her as if she is going to break.

But she's whiny.

She is shamed for seeking solace in a less-than-savory relationship with Spike, despite the fact that it seems to give her what she wants. It gives her comfort, and then it is used against her as if it should be a means to discredit her.

But she is whiny.

I find it telling the way that we are willing to hold Buffy to a different standard. She is a different sort of superhero than we are used to. She is young, and a woman, and was the longest superhero of her kind on the telly. But it just doesn't seem that we are willing to give her the human space of emotion to hurt the way we do some of our other superheroes.

Why is that?
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Source: http://randombabble.com/2010/09/06/buffy-is-so-whiny/
 
T
TaylorSwift
Yep, it was posted at the beginning of the thread. LOL
Natasha1988 said:
She has no right to whine every character has had bad things happen to them but she seems to make it her lifes mission to be a serial complainer and piss everyone off lol
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Dawn has a lot to put with, not least a deadbeat dad, the death of her mother, having a big sister who's a superhero/sexiest woman in the world etc etc (as the youngest child with 2 high flying siblings I can relate) . All the Scoobys love Dawn and she's the love of Buffy's life. She get's a lot better in season 7 when she is given more to do than get rescued and give Buffy unconditional love (and of course she get's HOT!)
 
saturn5 said:
Dawn has a lot to put with, not least a deadbeat dad, the death of her mother, having a big sister who's a superhero/sexiest woman in the world etc etc (as the youngest child with 2 high flying siblings I can relate) . All the Scoobys love Dawn and she's the love of Buffy's life. She get's a lot better in season 7 when she is given more to do than get rescued and give Buffy unconditional love (and of course she get's HOT!)
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Exactly they all love her no matter how annoying she gets so what does she have to moan about! They would all do anything for her yet she still acts like an attention seeking brat. I admit she does get a little less annoying in season 7 but I still wish she was never created. Its one character I will never be swayed on I really do hate the character lol
 
S
Spikefan31
Again, LOL
TaylorSwift agrees: Yep, it was posted at the beginning of the thread. LOL

LMFAO!

Okay, lets rewind Kean's little outburst and pretend it never happend.

:blush:
 
T
TaylorSwift
Ahahah..noo Kean, you did good. You brought to our attention again and made VisionGirl read it for the first time so..all's good ;)
Kean said:
TaylorSwift agrees: Yep, it was posted at the beginning of the thread. LOL

LMFAO!

Okay, lets rewind Kean's little outburst and pretend it never happend.

:blush:
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No, actually Kean, I hadn't read the link in the OP (bad, bad ViGirl, I know!). And I have to say that I agree with every word of it. So thanks! 😉
 
There's an interesting discussion on this topic going on at ontd_feminism.

Anyway, my view on the issue is that she's allowed to be, on occasion, 'whiny'. When you think of all the things she's been through and put up with, a little complaining's okay, I think.
 
Her voice is kind of whiny sometimes. But hey, that's not her fault. That voice is actually pretty cute, like a little girl. (my father always mentions how childish she sounds).
 
Natasha1988 said:
Exactly they all love her no matter how annoying she gets so what does she have to moan about! They would all do anything for her yet she still acts like an attention seeking brat. I admit she does get a little less annoying in season 7 but I still wish she was never created. Its one character I will never be swayed on I really do hate the character lol
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Come on, even Faith loves Dawn in the end. And you must admit she does have a lot to put up with (Buffy dying!). Compared to how the other Scoobs vent their furstrations (skinning people etc) Dawn doesn't have much to answer for. She's the baby of the group and they dote on her. Watch Forever/Potential again and tell me you aren't moved?🙂
 
saturn5 said:
Come on, even Faith loves Dawn in the end.
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Lol, isn't it a bit of a stretch to claim that she loved Dawn at the end? Tolerated or liked perhaps, but loved?
 
N
Natasha1988
I agree i dont think Faith had any feelings good or bad for her really! lol
saturn5 said:
Come on, even Faith loves Dawn in the end. And you must admit she does have a lot to put up with (Buffy dying!). Compared to how the other Scoobs vent their furstrations (skinning people etc) Dawn doesn't have much to answer for. She's the baby of the group and they dote on her. Watch Forever/Potential again and tell me you aren't moved?🙂
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I dont think Faith had any feelings good or bad for her, she was just there in the room! Everyone had to deal with Buffy dying not just her, ok she was her sister but they all loved her like a sister! She is the baby of the group but theres a point where she should have grown up and stopped being such a brat, as for Forever she was a complete idiot in that ep, she was told not to mess with magic but she did, causing Buffy more heartbreak (the scene where she thinks her mums coming back)...and in potential she milked her moment for everything it was worth (running away so everyone would run after her)....Seriously I hate her Ive never hated a character so much lol 😛
 
I would accuse her of a lot of things (in that "love her, see her flaws" kind of way) but I wouldn't say whiny. I mean, I have multiple moments a day when I tell myself, "Oh, stop whining!" and I just go to work and school! I think her outbursts were well-placed (what's coming to my mind is her speech to her mom: "I would love to be upstairs watching tv or gossiping about boys or--God, even studying!") and I felt for her in those moments.

Except Sanctuary.
 
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