Is Dollhouse Doomed? 7 Trouble Signs

[goldenboy]

Yeah, but Uncle Rory, everything Whedon has done is kind of building on tired concepts and cliches. Monster movies, high school coming of age dramas, film noir, westerns, space operas...

I thought it sounded interesting, beyond the "who's she gonna be this week" stuff. Echo evolving into a person, the fact that there's a rogue insane Active on the loose, Tamoh's character trying to figure out who's running the Dollhouse, if it's even real.

What I've read of the scripts makes the level of deception and doll programming sound pretty twisted and complex.

I'm just thinking FOX has forced Joss to simplify, water down so much that it really is gonna just morph into an Alias type show.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

The last Truly Original Story was written in cuneiform somewhere in ancient Babylon. Everything that's come since has been building on what came before.

Network TV is deathly allergic to completely original concepts anyway. Why do you think we get endless reality shows about people in revealing swimwear doing horrible things to each other? Or a dozen different police/courtroom/hospital procedurals with several spinoffs each?

It's the story that matters, not the template.

 

[Uncle Rory]

No arguement there, but it seems to me that if I were a writer, (which I hope to be one day) I would stay away from any theme or premise that has been done to death in recent years. It's like the similarity between Heroes and the 4400. Now that the 4400 has been cancelled, why are the Heroes writers picking up 4400 concepts? Lack of creativity and originality. This theme (Dollhouse) has been done TOO recently IMHO to work again. I guess what I mean is that there may not be any original stories but you can still write with originality. BUT one sure way to stifle your originality would be to jump on the bandwagon of the latest trend, style, theme etc. etc. And as I have mentioned before, I hope and pray that Dollhouse will do well, but it hasn't grabbed my attention yet so I won't hold my breath.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

No arguement there, but it seems to me that if I were a writer, (which I hope to be one day) I would stay away from any theme or premise that has been done to death in recent years. It's like the similarity between Heroes and the 4400. Now that the 4400 has been cancelled, why are the Heroes writers picking up 4400 concepts? Lack of creativity and originality. This theme (Dollhouse) has been done TOO recently IMHO to work again. I guess what I mean is that there may not be any original stories but you can still write with originality. BUT one sure way to stifle your originality would be to jump on the bandwagon of the latest trend, style, theme etc. etc. And as I have mentioned before, I hope and pray that Dollhouse will do well, but it hasn't grabbed my attention yet so I won't hold my breath.

Buffy took the well established theme of High School Horror and turned it on its head. Angel took the well established trend of Cop/Detective show spin-offs in another city and turned it on it's head. I'm really failing to see the problem here.

Uncle Rory agrees: The concept as I have mentioned in previous post has been done to death, and recently

As had Angels. The difference between Angel and the other shows wasn't the demons, it was the writing and the comedy. If Joss can bring that to Dollhouse, then it will feel like a completely different show.

 

[PurplePoof]

I don't think it matters if the concept isn't entirely original...it's not the premise, it's the execution. And I'd rather watch a well-written, well put together series that borrowed heavily from other shows than watch a show that is almost completely original and innovative but is written and produced by a bunch of howler monkeys.

 

[Airam]

There is one other reason that this show seems likely to fail. Has no one considered the possibility that it is just a really stupid concept? And not the least bit original. To me this whole thing looks like a variety program. How soon after it begins will we get an episode where the "Dolls" sing and dance? Flawed. The whole thing has gotten attention completely based on the Whedon name. If Firefly had gotten half the attention that this show has we'd be in season 4 of it right now. Really a shame. Seems Joss is doing to others what has been done to him. Buffy finished and we got a ton of shows about women with supernatural powers, Ghost Whisperer, Medium, Tru Calling, etc. So now Joss copies Alias, Pretender and "Catch me if you can?" If you can't do ORIGINAL at least do NEVER BEEN DONE ON TV. RIP Dollhouse. (and if I'm wrong I'll be the first in line for the box sets but I'm not holding my breath)

Seriously? Well, I have to completely disagree with you. I don't think its a stupid concept at all, I think its rather clever AND original. And when on TV before have you seen a show about individuals who volunteer to have their memory and personality wiped clean so that they might be imprinted with a new personality at the will and choice of whomever hires them for the day/week, or however long... only to have their personality wiped clean again when that job is through so that the process can start all over again? The only thing that even comes close is My Own Worst Enemy and you can't possibly accuse Joss of ripping off a show that was in development at the same time as Dollhouse, it just made it on air first and now has come and gone before it even got off the ground (travesty that that was). Personally, I'm still so excited about this show!

 

[Skanky Vamp]

And when on TV before have you seen a show about individuals who volunteer to have their memory wiped clean so that they might be imprinted with a new personality at the will and choice of whomever

Sounds a bit like Quantum Leap

 

[Airam]

Sounds a bit like Quantum Leap

Oh come on! It does not! Quantum Leap was a purely science fiction show where Sam gets sent back in time each episode to a different point in history and actually leaps into the body of another person in order to fix something in that person's life, his memories remain intact the whole time. Its not even a little bit like Dollhouse's concept!

Its possible you were just baiting me and if thats so, you get one of these :silly:

 

[Randy Giles]

PurplePoof agrees: Well, I'd want more than 13 episodes.

Um...so I take that to mean you don't watch cable shows, since the general rule for those is that each season gets only around 13 episodes each? HBO usually does 12 per season.

It's the quality that should matter, not the quantity, and the reality is that Dollhouse is not going to get more than 13 episodes for it's first season, because even if it were a massive hit (for a Friday) there'd be no time to produce more episodes...and I'm sure the season finale won't end on a huge cliffhanger, since I'm sure the creative team wants to make sure fans will be somewhat happy if the show's canceled and doesn't get a second season.

On top of that, unless the show is a huge flop FOX will probably air all thirteen episodes. But if you don't want to watch, simply because you don't think 13 episodes is good enough, fine. You do that...but you're the one who will be missing out.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

American TV is slowly but surely evolving closer to the British model... make a series of 6-13 episodes, and if it succeeds, make another series. Repeat until people stop watching. In the case of a sci-fi drama, 13 episodes is pretty much optimal.

 

[Randy Giles]

Well on broadcast TV, not really...most new shows that air during midseason have around 13 at most, and if they're successful enough, usually 22 episodes are still the norm. This past season, though, returning shows were treated like they were new and only partial seasons were ordered (Terminator, Chuck, Pushing Daisies, Dirty Sexy Money, Private Practice, etc)...unfortunately all my favorite ones aren't getting full seasons. 🙁

Even though I know shorter seasons usually mean tighter writing, I would hate it if all shows switched to 13 per season. One or two sorta lame episodes are worth it, IMO, and I love it when shows will do one shot episodes. (Expose, from season three of Lost, if one of my favorite episodes and it's considered filler.) I would hate it if Desperate Housewives, Supernatural, The Office, 30 Rock, Bones, and stuff like that only produced 13 episodes every year. *cringes at the thought*

Although it's fine on cable since that's what I'm used to. 🙂

 

[PurplePoof]

Um...so I take that to mean you don't watch cable shows, since the general rule for those is that each season gets only around 13 episodes each? HBO usually does 12 per season.

It's the quality that should matter, not the quantity, and the reality is that Dollhouse is not going to get more than 13 episodes for it's first season, because even if it were a massive hit (for a Friday) there'd be no time to produce more episodes...and I'm sure the season finale won't end on a huge cliffhanger, since I'm sure the creative team wants to make sure fans will be somewhat happy if the show's canceled and doesn't get a second season.

On top of that, unless the show is a huge flop FOX will probably air all thirteen episodes. But if you don't want to watch, simply because you don't think 13 episodes is good enough, fine. You do that...but you're the one who will be missing out.

I have no problem with a season being 13 episodes...in fact I'd rather have 12 or 13 awesome episodes as opposed to 22-24 subpar or mediocre episodes. My point was...if I get 13 episodes I'm gonna be engrossed and want more. If it's cancelled, I don't get more, and I'm left like I was with Firefly and Wonderfalls...simple formula.

And love your attitude...it's quite fetching.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

Well on broadcast TV, not really...most new shows that air during midseason have around 13 at most, and if they're successful enough, usually 22 episodes are still the norm. This past season, though, returning shows were treated like they were new and only partial seasons were ordered (Terminator, Chuck, Pushing Daisies, Dirty Sexy Money, Private Practice, etc)...unfortunately all my favorite ones aren't getting full seasons. 🙁

Even though I know shorter seasons usually mean tighter writing, I would hate it if all shows switched to 13 per season. One or two sorta lame episodes are worth it, IMO, and I love it when shows will do one shot episodes. (Expose, from season three of Lost, if one of my favorite episodes and it's considered filler.) I would hate it if Desperate Housewives, Supernatural, The Office, 30 Rock, Bones, and stuff like that only produced 13 episodes every year. *cringes at the thought*

Although it's fine on cable since that's what I'm used to. 🙂

The problem is that fewer and fewer scripted shows are earning their keep enough, ratings wise, to justify the expense of a 22-24 episode season. It's not just genre shows any more.

Sure, it's kind of frustrating when you reach that 13th episode of "Doctor Who" or seventh episode of "Spaced" and say, "isn't there any more?" But the thing is, you'll remember every single episode in detail, and you'll want to watch them over and over again online or on DVD. "Lost", for example, is a show that was built for 22-episode seasons... but it became a much better show when they lopped 5 episodes off that schedule and found that they had to actually tell a story every week instead of farting around with pointless window dressing like "how did Jack get his tattoos."

I think it's much better for a show like "Dollhouse" to go on the premise of "let's tell a story in 13 episodes and see how it goes", rather than "let's schedule a 22-episode season arc, get cancelled after 10, and leave fans with an unfinished story."

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Randy and Poofy need to get a room!!!

Randy mate, you know I love you don't you, but you do come across a tad hostile sometimes (looks who is talking, I should know!!!) but we know you don't mean it like that🙂

Anyway. Will I watch Dollhouse, you betcha, am I gonna get overly excited about it - probably only when I read the article on Buffy Boards - "Dollhouse commissioned for a second series" and luckily for me, that will be decided long before Dollhouse gets its premiere on UK screens, so I'll know whether to bother or not.

 

[Randy Giles]

Eh, well, Poof, if you think I had an attitude, I apologize, because I did not mean to sound like a bitca. 🙂 And maybe it's just the stress from my car getting stolen showing through. :/

 

[Buffy Summers]

What's going to end up happening, eventually, especially with NBC losing 5 hours of scripted drama a week, is the return of the sitcom. Because the networks aren't going to be able to sustain entire seasons of these big expensive productions anymore...they're going to go back to the cheap and easy.

But something for people to think about about shows getting cancelled...people vote with their remotes. If people aren't watching the show it's hard for the networks to justify keeping them on. They can't afford the next show if this one's losing money. Something's gotta give...

 

[AndrewCrossett]

What will help a lot is when the networks finally get with the 21st century and drop fixed time slots in favor of all on-demand programming.

A show goes up at a certain time and stays up, forever.

No more good shows dying because they were up against other popular shows

No more "death slots" like Friday nights

No more shows getting low ratings because everyone DVR's them

No more not being able to catch up on a show... the whole series is right there on your TV screen, archived, for you to watch whenever you like. Choose the free option (with commercials you can't FF through) or the premium option (49 cents per half-hour, commercial free).

And they'd know exactly how many people were watching by the number of "hits." Want to help your favorite show succeed? Hit it multiple times.

This arrangement would be incredibly helpful for a show like Dollhouse.

 

[Randy Giles]

Scheduled television isn't going anywhere, anytime soon I think. That would be kind of lame, actually.

 

[Buffy Summers]

Agreed. Because it's fine for you and me to watch tv that way, but there are a LOT of the older generation out there and it's hard enough to get them to use a DVR, let alone totally change the way people watch tv. I mean, just tonight, my father went about 90 on back roads to get home in time to watch NCIS.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I mean, just tonight, my father went about 90 on back roads to get home in time to watch NCIS.

Thats actually quite sweet (though obviously dangerous)


I do think what Andrew is suggesting is being phased in.

I mean I can pretty much watch any show I miss online. Its only a matter of time before they find a way to link it to TV (Internet through Television is already here) and slowly convert people to watching through those means.

In the UK we've only a couple of years now before everything is digital, analogue will be no more.

It will take time but it will happen.

Patience is all that is required...granted that patience will probably mean we lose some shows along the way but still